Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

[Roger D.]

Folks,

In looking thru the Judging guide for my '72, I haven't really seen much on specifications for the plating required for nuts/bolts, and brackets. Of course there is no plating left on any of my old fasteners. Is there something written somewhere showing what kind of plating should go on these?

Roger

[Bill C.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

if you are looking at the 4th edition, go to page 105 -
has lots of info.

also - each section under the chassis section tells the color or plating of bolts and brackets.

for the most part - if it can't be seen, likely black oxide or phosphate.
visible - cadmium plated.

parts not as above, will be
heat shields - are parkerized (dark gray/manganese w/sparkles). ps - this is the same for the male and female hood latching mechanisms.
front caliper brackets - yellow dichromate or gold irodite in color
front dust shields - dull cadmium

if in doubt -
list the part, location and someone on the TDB can provide insight.

bill

[Gene M.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Roger,
Doing some investigation you will find that most plating is zinc, zinc with a dichromate, and black/gray phosphate.

[D S.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Contact Bob Demmel in Plano. He does plating and dichromate. rjdemmel@tx.rr.com

[Chris S.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

http://www.detailplating.com/

Steve is who I use for my plating - never an issue

[Gene M.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Most any plating shop can handle zinc, zinc with a dichromate, and black/gray phosphate. They are all typical platings/finish used by commercial platers. Generally you will need a group of guys to go in on a lot as that is the minimum cost. Some platers will require parts to be "clean". Others will tank pieces.

[Steve L.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

When doing a major restoration, black phosphate and zinc plating can be done easily at home for small parts such as bolts, nuts with a Caswell kits. Platers charge by the lb. with a mininum and in bulk. They do not want to see individual bagged and tagged items. IF you do not bag and tag items, you will quickly loose control of what goes where.

A plating kit allows you to do individual items or a small batch. The blakening kit only takes minute to do assuming the part is cleaned and bead blasted. The zinc kit takes 15 minitues but need a small power supply. I do these small items in discarded large plastic peanut jars. You will need a small learning curve but Caswell supplies a good manual.

[Gene M.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Steve,
I've used the Caswell kits. Big disappointment for anything other than a trailer queen. Damp weather and it rusts. If you want lasting results leave it to the professional platers. Yes you do have to find one that is not going to "loose" your parts.......

If you want black plating that will last ask for black zinc dichromate. It is a bit nicer than phosphate but as it ages the difference is less noticeable. It is not rough texture.

I've sent out plenty of replating jobs in my area and all are not equal. Once you find a good one stay with them.

[Steve L.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Steve,
I've used the Caswell kits. Big disappointment for anything other than a trailer queen. Damp weather and it rusts. If you want lasting results leave it to the professional platers. Yes you do have to find one that is not going to "loose" your parts.......

If you want black plating that will last ask for black zinc dichromate. It is a bit nicer than phosphate but as it ages the difference is less noticeable. It is not rough texture.

I've sent out plenty of replating jobs in my area and all are not equal. Once you find a good one stay with them.

Their blackening kit has to be sealed right away or it will rust within minutes. I've used there sealant which smells like an oil or dust wd40. Wipe it off and let it evaporate for a day, then use clear satin. I haven't had a problem with the zinc plating. But I usually put on a thick plating.

I have their black zinc dichromate. It works well but it looks too much like paint. So I don't use it very much.

[Steve L.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

One other advantage of home plating that I should add, is that you can mask off anything you do not want plated with clear satin paint. So you don't have to completely disassembly something. Brake proportion valve comes to mind. The body is brass but the bracket is yellow dichromate. Also, vacuum cans can be sealed off and plated.

[Roger D.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Thanks for all the great information. Someone sent me a Paragon bolt chart which listed the following finishes plus a few minor others.

Zinc
Black Phospate
Yellow Dichromate
Cadmium plating
Natural w/Heat Treatment

1. Is Zinc the same "color" as what they refer to as Yellow Dichromate?
2. Is Cadmium a silver color or can it be other colors?
3. I heard that Cadmium is being phased out due to environmental reasons. Is it still available?
4. Before I heard about #3, I visited a plating place and remember that they told me that the "phosphate" finishes easily corroded and could be easily scratched off. Seems they mentioned that you need to put a light lubricant film on them to preserve the finish. Is that true? If so, can you get by with a black oxide finish?

Roger

[Terry M.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Yellow dichromate is a finish applied to a zinc plated part. It is the yellow gold color you see on vacuum actuators, and is a solution a zinc plated part is dipped into.
Cadmimum is more often a gray finish.. It is extremely toxic.You may have to find a plating shop that does government or aircraft work to find cadmium plating. Fewer and fewer places are doing it.
Typically a finish of phosphate and oil is specified. It is exactly what the name sounds like.
What do you mean by "Can you get by?"Black oxide & black phosphate are two different finishes, and unless you are Ray Charles the difference is evident. May be in the darkness of a chassis you might "get by " a time or two at a Chapter meet, but why not do it right and not have to do it again? Of course if you enjoy doing this time and again ...,, And if you want the opportunity to complain about points lost......

[Roger D.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Yellow dichromate is a finish applied to a zinc plated part. It is the yellow gold color you see on vacuum actuators, and is a solution a zinc plated part is dipped into.
Cadmimum is more often a gray finish.. It is extremely toxic.You may have to find a plating shop that does government or aircraft work to find cadmium plating. Fewer and fewer places are doing it.
Typically a finish of phosphate and oil is specified. It is exactly what the name sounds like.
What do you mean by "Can you get by?"Black oxide & black phosphate are two different finishes, and unless you are Ray Charles the difference is evident. May be in the darkness of a chassis you might "get by " a time or two at a Chapter meet, but why not do it right and not have to do it again? Of course if you enjoy doing this time and again ...,, And if you want the opportunity to complain about points lost......

Terry, First of all thanks for that information. I'm in somewhat of a learning mode as I've never done a restore before. I wasn't suggesting doing something to get past the judges. I am just trying to get more familiarity with the different finishes. I was just "wondering" about the black finishes and if black oxide looks the same and is more durable than a black phosphate finish then maybe it would make more sense in a restore regardless of the point impact on judging. I may never get the car judged anyway however I'd still like it to be as close as possible to how it came out at the factory.

Roger

[Bob I.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

I recommend the Chassis Restoration Guide, by Joseph Tripoli. I found this book very useful.
Bob

[Steve L.]

Re: Plating for Bolts, nuts, brackets during frame restore

Terry, First of all thanks for that information. I'm in somewhat of a learning mode as I've never done a restore before. I wasn't suggesting doing something to get past the judges. I am just trying to get more familiarity with the different finishes. I was just "wondering" about the black finishes and if black oxide looks the same and is more durable than a black phosphate finish then maybe it would make more sense in a restore regardless of the point impact on judging. I may never get the car judged anyway however I'd still like it to be as close as possible to how it came out at the factory.

Roger

Black phosphate is used the most often and it is a horrible finish for corrosion. I suspect they used it because it was the cheapest. From what I can tell, it basically is a finish to get the car from the factory, to the dealer and into customer hands just before the fastner starts to rust. I suspect that this finish makes the part absorbent just enough to hold a bit of oil. It is the oil that stops the rust. Caswell calls it a sealant but I think that term is over generous.

This finish is put on by dipping in a solution for about 30 seconds. No power supplies are required. It is a water based solution. I put the parts in a webbed oinion bag and dip and swirl. Once out of the solution, the part need to be dried with a paper towel immediately, then the sealer from Caswell put on immediately. I think the sealer displaces any remaining water and adds oil. WD40 seems to work as well.
After an hour, I paper towel this then let it sit overnight, then add satin clear.

Black oxide is different, it was tiny crystals that shine in the light. This finish is much harder to do at home since it involves some nasty chemistry and requires high crock pot heat. I don't know how well it is for corrosion. But I suspect it is better than black phosphate.

Black phosphate is going to rust whether it is sent out to be plated professionally or done at home. It's just a matter of when. It is so much easier to keep track of parts at home, less hassle and probably a lot cheaper. Using a plater, you will probably save all the parts for everything, body, engine, powertrain bumpers. Then send it out as a batch- not tagged. This makes me shudder.