Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

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  • Doug L.
    Expired
    • March 15, 2010
    • 442

    #16
    Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

    Originally posted by Bob & Nancy Muhs (41576)
    Don,

    Bob Baird used the Optima and I used a Mazda battery. There was plenty of room inside, I did not put the bottom back on the battery. No deductions.

    Bob
    Hi Bob, I don't mean to be critical and I really appreciated your article in Restorer, but Optima produces a great number and variety of batteries. The optima website does not seem to have a chart of their batteries that shows dimensions and technical specifications. You must input either a specific car by year, make, model, or enter a battery group number. Doing either will not easily produce results that enable one to determine which battery will fit inside an old case. Identifying a battery as being for a "Mazda" has the same or greater problem. I have not researched how many models, production years, variations in battery size there are for Mazda. I also doubt that the Mazda company that builds cars also produces their own batteries. What would have been really helpful is if you would have identified the batteries that fit inside the case by manufacturer and model or part number.

    In regard to Joe's question I can only offer my view which is to me it seems that people do get deductions for any part that appears to be different from the original. When I bought fan belts, radiator hoses, seat covers, and carpets to name a few, I bought repros and tried to get those that most closely resembled the originals. Most people, unless they bought their car new, have no idea what the oriignal looked like. We have to rely on the Judging guides and comments on this forum. I guess I also wonder how much difference there could be in some of the mentioned parts compared to originals. A radiator hose is rubber and if it has, for example, a blue stripe and the OEM part number printed in the correct color and font, what is the big difference between the repro hose and the original? It seems that batteries are a part where the technology has greatly changed in that typically on new batteries there are no screw-on caps, so the appearance difference is very obvious. The repros (at least the one I have) produce the correct size case with the correct logos and shape, and correct-appearing caps. At least they are very similar looking verses original tar-top batteries. Are they perfect in every detail? Probably not but they are far, far more authentic looking than a modern maintenancee-free battery. If you have to replace a battery every 3 years or so and you want something that can be judged without a 100% deduction, what other options are there? I needed a new battery. My options were to spend $300 o a new Resto battery which, according to user comments on this TDB has some issues, or buy a modern battery which will get me a 100% deduct, or find a dead resto or original (good luck with that) battery and stuff a small. modern, sealed battery inside it. I was lucky and had a dead resto battery given to me, so now my options are do a little work to hollow out the dead resto battery and spend $115 for an Odyysey battery that will fit inside. Will it be perfect? Probbaly not. Will it take a lesser hit during judging? I hope so. Was there a less expensive option? Not buy much if at all.

    Comment

    • Kurt G.
      Very Frequent User
      • May 1, 2005
      • 343

      #17
      Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

      Don,

      To save you a lot of trouble weeding thru which battery to put in your old case there is an easy solution. Bass Pro Shops sells a AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery for use in boats and trolling motors. It is smaller than many of the batteries mentioned here, and they have dimensions on their catalog page (web site www.basspro.com) so you can make sure it will fit. The battery is made in Warrensburg, MO, and as a testament to this company, I have had a set of their batteries in my bass boat since 1998 and they are still in good shape. The battery is not cheap, but it's better than $250 for a restoration battery. I wish I had your old case, cuz I'd sure put one of these in it.
      Kurt Geis
      Chairman, Midway USA Chapter
      Targa Blue 1972, Top Flight and Duntov Award, 2014
      Arctic White 1994, Top Flight, Hrt. of Amer. Reg. 2011
      Arctic White 2013 60th Anniv Special Edition Conv.

      Comment

      • Pat M.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • April 1, 2006
        • 1564

        #18
        Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

        If Don's repo battery is made like mine it should be much easier and safer than the method in the Restorer article because the repo battery is already hollow and already has jumper cables to connect to a smaller battery. All he should have to do is remove the bottom and replace the inner battery.

        Comment

        • Paul J.
          Expired
          • September 10, 2008
          • 2091

          #19
          Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

          Originally posted by Doug Loeffler (51544)
          Hi Bob, I don't mean to be critical and I really appreciated your article in Restorer, but Optima produces a great number and variety of batteries. The optima website does not seem to have a chart of their batteries that shows dimensions and technical specifications. You must input either a specific car by year, make, model, or enter a battery group number. Doing either will not easily produce results that enable one to determine which battery will fit inside an old case. Identifying a battery as being for a "Mazda" has the same or greater problem. I have not researched how many models, production years, variations in battery size there are for Mazda. I also doubt that the Mazda company that builds cars also produces their own batteries. What would have been really helpful is if you would have identified the batteries that fit inside the case by manufacturer and model or part number.
          A "Mazda" battery is the same as a Honda Civic battery.

          Seriously, it is about 3/5 the size of a Group 24 battery. I believe that it is a Group 51, but don't quote me on that. There are different brands but there are only two or three manufacturers in this country. Interstate and Autozone both have them for about $100 or less. The AutoZone pn for thier medium grade 500 CCA battery is 51R-DLG and it has an 8 year warranty with a three year free replacement.

          Paul

          Comment

          • Doug L.
            Expired
            • March 15, 2010
            • 442

            #20
            Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

            Further to Pat's comments, today I went to work on my battery. It is a Restoration sealed battery dated 1963. I drilled holes in all 4 corners of the bottom, as close as possible to what I thought would be the inside wall. I then used a Makita grinder with a cut-off disk to cut ~ 1/2" deep along the perimeter of the bottom between the holes I drilled. I then started chipping away with a hammer and chisel. After chiseling away ~3/8" off the bottom surface of the battery I started to see the outline of another battery. I continued chipping between the Restoration case and the inner case untill I could begin to see the sides of the inner battery. It was obvious that the inner battery was potted inside the Restoration case, so I drilled a 1" hole in 1 corner between the outer and inner cases using a flat wood bit . I had to drill ~ 1.5" deep before I broke through the potting material. At that point I used a reciprocating saw to cut through the potting material around the perimeter of the inner battery. The inner battery was hard against one side of the Restoration battery but I was able to cut through that area with the recip saw. Once a cut was made around the entire perimeter the inner battery came loose.

            The negative post of the inner battery was at a bottom corner. A cable was connected between the negative battery post and the bottom side of the Restoration battery negative post. The connection of this cable to the inner battery was via 10 mm bolt. The positive cable was a problem. It was very short and would not allow the iner battery to be pulled out far enough to get to the bolt that secured the cable. I eventaully used a small hack saw to cut the cable at the connector. Apparently the cable was attached to the inner battery first. The inner battery was probably then dropped into the shell of the Restoration battery while the top of the Resto battery was off and after the potting compound had been poured into the bottom of the Resto battery but not yet hardened. The top of the Resto battery was probably installed last using silicone sealant which is visible inside the battery.

            Now my problem is finding a sealed battery that will fit inside. The space inside for the replacement battery is 9.5" L x 6" W x ~5" H. So far I find no Optima battery this small and only 1 Odyssey battery that will fit and it is only 185 CCAs. I am hoping I can find something much more powerful. I believe I can splice a section of cable to the cut-off positive cable.

            For those that try this at home I have one caution. Be very careful when prying to remove the potting material. It is very possible/easy to crack the case of the Restoration case. This is the voice of experience speaking, damn it.

            Comment

            • Grant W.
              Very Frequent User
              • December 1, 1987
              • 405

              #21
              Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

              Hi John
              Can they retro fit a 1968 Delco Energizer Battery R 59???
              Thanks, Grant

              Comment

              • Paul J.
                Expired
                • September 10, 2008
                • 2091

                #22
                Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                Doug, see if there is anything here that will help you.



                Paul

                Comment

                • Doug L.
                  Expired
                  • March 15, 2010
                  • 442

                  #23
                  Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                  One final note to anyone that has interest. I could not ID the old sealed battery that was inside my Restoration case. In my business I often use solar panels to charge batteries that power my equipment. I decided to contact my supplier who is very knowledgable about batteries. He reviewed my requirements and size limitations and recommended an Enersysy Odyssey PC925. Like the old battery it will have to be oriented on its side to fit in the case. It has almost the exact dimensions as the unit that came out of the Restoration battery, is sealed, and has twice the CCA as the only other Odyssey battery (PC545) that has suitable dimensions. He also told me that "...It looks like it would be a perfect fit and is definitely slotted for engine cranking applications." I have one ordered. The internal dimensions of my Restoration case are ~9.5 x 6 x 6.5 inches (LWH).

                  Comment

                  • John D.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • December 1, 1979
                    • 5507

                    #24
                    Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                    Tim, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Working none stop here. I did not use the plastic bag as didn't have to. No acid problems as the heavy duty saran wrap under each cap did the trick.
                    If it had not been for my son though and I had to pull the battery out myself I probably would have used the bag.
                    Some say to use a battery carries-the old fashion kind.
                    Someone else here asked if his 68 battery could be rebuilt. The answer is yes.

                    Meanwhile it doesn't pay to rebuild a sealed top Restoration battery. I mean they are readily available so just buy a new one.
                    John

                    At our PIttsburgh Chapter Restoration/judging seminar last week the battery used to rebuild an old tar top: Optima Odyssey. Dont' know the model #.
                    Fort Pitt Classic Cars owned by Ron Libengood of Sharpsburg, PA did the presentation on rebuilding a battery. Ron@FortPittClassicCars.com or 412-781-2277
                    Last edited by John D.; February 23, 2012, 12:47 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Jeff A.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • January 1, 2000
                      • 312

                      #25
                      Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                      Pretty easy to do yourself - I used the Odyssey 925. (was $99 back in 2006) they are more expensive now -
                      I got 5 years out of the first one I did back then.

                      Here is the old thread ---> https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ration-Battery
                      My Cars

                      Comment

                      • Bob M.
                        Expired
                        • March 1, 2004
                        • 66

                        #26
                        Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                        Doug,

                        I will see if I still have the number of the Mazda battery that I used. I sold the last car and will be doing it again with my new car for judging points. Contack Bob Baird, he has the info on the Optima battery that he used. I will look for the numbers on the Mazda that I used.

                        Bob

                        Comment

                        • Bob M.
                          Expired
                          • March 1, 2004
                          • 66

                          #27
                          Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                          Doug,

                          Maybe with the CCA you need, they don't make one that small to fit into the shell. We both have 1960 corvette and don't need a lot of amps to get it started. Just a thought.

                          Bob

                          Comment

                          • Ronald L.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • October 19, 2009
                            • 3248

                            #28
                            Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                            Vinnie the link is not any good...

                            Comment

                            • Vinnie P.
                              Editor NCRS Restorer Magazine
                              • June 1, 1990
                              • 1539

                              #29
                              Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                              Originally posted by Ronald Lovelace (50931)
                              Vinnie the link is not any good...
                              Ron...link should work now...

                              Vinnie

                              Comment

                              • Troy P.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • February 1, 1989
                                • 1279

                                #30
                                Re: Saving Correct Reproduction Battery Case

                                John, I agree, getting the battery in and out is a pain. When you go to put it back in try this trick: Put the battery in a plastic grocery bag with handles. Then you can hold the battery with one hand while you use the other hand to shove it under the fender and into place. Once in place tear the bag off.

                                Comment

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