The value of Al Grennings certification service

[Greg L.]

I was in the Corvette Forum's classifieds and some guy was discounting Al's service and calling it a waste of money. I replied with my thoughts on the value of his servce but obviously this is one of those guys that is alway right so I just left it at that but it got me thinking...

How accurate would you all say Al's service is when it comes to stamp pads. What percentage of the time does he make a mistake and how would you ever know if he did make a mistake without, say GM of Canada docs? Is his service worth the money?

If anyone is interested in this guy's points on CF I can post a link to that thread.

[John H.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

First, let me say Al is a very nice person to meet. I attended a presentation
given by Al in San Antonio Texas at the NCRS National Convention in 2006.
His presentation was REALLY great to attend.
i left the seminar much more informed but still now where near in being
able to READ the stampings correctly. I feel it wasn't Al's presentation
as much it was the many ODD stampings that he discussed.
How reliable is Al ? Possibly ask Al for some references from past
customers. Contact them and ask questions such as yours.
My experience with NCRS members that are specialist in their field
has been very helpful and reliable; with the EXCEPTION of a thief
WONDERBAR MAN, radio repair person, who ripped my off big time.
This person WONDERBAR MAN even has a NCRS member number and
runs his ads in the RESTORER. STAY AWAY FROM HIM.
If any other member has been high jacked by this thief please post it
on the discussion page. WE need to know as members. Big John

[Joe L.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

I was in the Corvette Forum's classifieds and some guy was discounting Al's service and calling it a waste of money. I replied with my thoughts on the value of his servce but obviously this is one of those guys that is alway right so I just left it at that but it got me thinking...

How accurate would you all say Al's service is when it comes to stamp pads. What percentage of the time does he make a mistake and how would you ever know if he did make a mistake without, say GM of Canada docs? Is his service worth the money?

If anyone is interested in this guy's points on CF I can post a link to that thread.

Greg------


I don't think that Al "certifies" cars, per se. What Al does is advise the owner/buyer of a car whether or not the engine pad stampings on a given car are consistent with stampings on known-original cars and consistent with the information he has compiled in his HUGE database. Based on this, he can offer an educated opinion on whether a stamping is legitimate, or not.

For folks interested in this sort of thing (and an awful lot of folks seems to be), I think Al's service is the best thing out there. By far. However, I'm sure that folks who have cars deemed "non-legit" by Al think that Al's service is "not worth the money". Also, I'd imagine that folks interested in re-stamping and passing off re-stamps think that Al's service is a "waste of money", too. After all, it's only natural they would.

[Harry S.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

Several years ago I was in a discussion on what blocks survived and what blocks were likely not to survive. The rule-of-thump we came up with is, the low HP cars had an average survival rate of 80% and the high HP cars had a survival rate of 20%. Yes, it's the old 80/20 rule.

Saying that, if you believe his service is valuable to you for a high HP engine, the by all means give him a call.

I have a 250hp 63. I don't think anyone would re-stamp a block for 250hp. So I fell comfortable that it's an original and I would not look for his service.

I do not know what his service costs, so I can't comment on the value.

[Bob P.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

I've known Al for only a few years. I've seen him judging at most of the regional events in the east. He judged my 66 at least a 1/2 dozen times. I have respect for his opion and when it was time to buy something else I called him for recommendations. I believe he is honest and has as much or more knowledge about corvettes as anyone. I wouldn't buy anything he turns his nose up at.

[Joe C.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

I was in the Corvette Forum's classifieds and some guy was discounting Al's service and calling it a waste of money. I replied with my thoughts on the value of his servce but obviously this is one of those guys that is alway right so I just left it at that but it got me thinking...

How accurate would you all say Al's service is when it comes to stamp pads. What percentage of the time does he make a mistake and how would you ever know if he did make a mistake without, say GM of Canada docs? Is his service worth the money?

If anyone is interested in this guy's points on CF I can post a link to that thread.

Just what is it that you are trying to determine? If you want to know if the block is original to the car it sits in, then his service is almost foolproof.

Judging stamp pads is and always will be slightly subjective. Absent any forensic evidence, such as the configuration and characteristics of those stamps produced on neighboring blocks which were turned out during the same hour on the same day, then keep in mind that it is possible to reproduce broach marks that appear to be original to the majority of judges. Combine this with typical font/layout and placement of gang(s), and it is possible to end up with zero deductions for pad surface as well as VIN stamp and assembly stamp.

[Ron H.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

This topic is a fav for garage talk. The consensus seems to be this.

Al's service is a great benefit for historic identification, education, and his great wealth of knowledge concerning build characteristics. Here comes the BUT.....
but, to take this research and knowledge to another level and provide absolutes in judging, is taking a huge leap. My understanding is that Al participates in flight judging mechanical sections, and passes judgement on stamp pads. The general feeling amongst the masses is that there are very few absolutes when it comes to stamp pads. To say that a stamp pad gets deductions because its not consistent with sequences before or after that pad, requires a lot of logical deductions and a huge faith in the scientific and industrial process, that didnt exist in the 50's and 60's.

[Michael W.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

It might be worth mentioning that Flight Judging does not attempt to establish that an engine or it's stamp pad is the original one installed in a particular car. The key difference is judging uses 'typical of factory production' as it's criteria.

I understand that Mr. Grenning's services go well beyond this threshold.

[John M.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

John_
In my opinion , I paid way too much for radio repair by Wonderbar Man and would never use his service again.
However, if I send just one more check then we can proceed with my final repair again maybe.

[Ron H.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

Agreed. However, has the stamp pad "typical of factory construction" baseline for flight judging changed before and after Al Greninngs input and use of his stamp pad photos ?

[Dick W.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

Agreed. However, has the stamp pad "typical of factory construction" baseline for flight judging changed before and after Al Greninngs input and use of his stamp pad photos ?

NO Criteria was already in place. He only judged a couple of classes, it was up to the judges and team leaders to make the final call.

[Joe C.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

It might be worth mentioning that Flight Judging does not attempt to establish that an engine or it's stamp pad is the original one installed in a particular car. The key difference is judging uses 'typical of factory production' as it's criteria.

I understand that Mr. Grenning's services go well beyond this threshold.

I thought that I said that in post #4.

What Grenning's gig WILL tell an owner, is whether or not that engine is the original one (OK, OK.....................nothing is 100% Mister Hambrecht, so let's say 99%, not 100% OK?)

[William P.]

Re: The value of Al Grennings certification service

I contacted Mr Grenning about my pad a while ago . He was very friendly and easy to deal with . His price is reasonable if you only want his opinion . If you want him to put his findings in writing it costs more and that is only fair.
I was satisfied with his service , nice guy and huge asset to the hobby !
JMO Bill Purdy