C2 welded exhaust system help

[Dan H.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

Hi Doug, I installed the Gardner N11 system. VERY nice fit. Took it to my muffler shop and they loosened everything, centered it, stick welded the pipes onto the mufflers for $75.00. Yes there was a double weld visable at the muffler due to the pipes slipping into the muffler. (doesn't leak that way). It's very short, about an inch away from the muffler. It's aluminized, still looks perfect after 3 years and 10,000 miles! Being able to finely adjust the system will result in a great fit.
Dan

[Doug L.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

Hi Dan,
Thanks for relating your experience. Has your car been judged with the Gardner exhaust and if so what were the deductions? Based on Paul's earlier comments I would think a Gardner would loose 20% for configuration (incorrect 2-piece as evidenced by the second welded joint); 20% for date since it obviously isn't an original system; and 25% for finish for the aluminization.

Looking at each category:

Configuration: There are probably many features that fall under Configuration such as 1-piece, flattened rear pipes, flats on front "U" bolts. Can / does any manufacturer meet configuration? Assume 20% off.

Date: I'm guessing any non-original system causes this deduction so assumme 20% off.

Finish: Presumably a carbon steel system would avoid this deduction, and I believe there are those out there.

Complete: I assume it is possible to have a complete system and avoid a deduction.

Installation: This should be a deduction that can easily be avoided with a well fitting system.

From the above it seems a given that a non-orignal system will receive at least 40% deduction (Date and configuration). To me the question then becomes, do I take the additional 25% deduction for an aluminized system, or go with a carbon steel system?

Doug

[Russ S.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

Russ -

Midyear exhaust pipes (front and rear) were plain carbon steel. Mufflers had aluminized outer covers; the end plates (heads) were stainless on the RH muffler and aluminized on the LH muffler.

Don't know about C3's.

John, The judging guide states that no use of aluminized or stainless is consistent with factory installation. I don't inderstand why some one isn't making a system that is of correct materials as they would sell tons of them.

[John H.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

John, The judging guide states that no use of aluminized or stainless is consistent with factory installation. I don't inderstand why some one isn't making a system that is of correct materials as they would sell tons of them.

Russ -

The information I posted is direct from Chevrolet Engineering; it goes much further into the material and thickness of the main shells, baffles, asbestos wrap, pipe wall thicknesses, etc. The information is also on the GM part drawings furnished to Walker, the original exhaust system supplier (except for N-11 rear systems, which were made by Arvin).

[John H.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

From the above it seems a given that a non-orignal system will receive at least 40% deduction (Date and configuration). To me the question then becomes, do I take the additional 25% deduction for an aluminized system, or go with a carbon steel system?

Doug

Doug -

You can also look at it this way - there are only TEN originality points assigned to ALL the pipes and mufflers; even if you lost half of them, that's still only 1/5th of the points you'd lose if your lighter didn't "pop" or your washers didn't squirt. Hardly worth agonizing over.

[Russ S.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

Russ -

The information I posted is direct from Chevrolet Engineering; it goes much further into the material and thickness of the main shells, baffles, asbestos wrap, pipe wall thicknesses, etc. The information is also on the GM part drawings furnished to Walker, the original exhaust system supplier (except for N-11 rear systems, which were made by Arvin).

With information like this how can the judging guide ignore it and state flatly no aluminized or stainless was used????

[Wayne P.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

I used Corvette Centrals . Off road. sounds great. Not sure about point deductions. Installed well. Will weld later. cheers

[John H.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

With information like this how can the judging guide ignore it and state flatly no aluminized or stainless was used????

Russ -

Here's the 1967 exhaust system description, from the Chevrolet Engineering specifications package; the 1963-66 specs are probably similar, but I don't have those packages. They're available for download from the GM Heritage Center site.

[Don L.]

Re: C2 welded exhaust system help

I have been doing some research on a new exhaust system for my '64. Unfortunately it isn't possible to know how a system will fare in judging based on literature on manufacturer's websites. So I contacted one of the NCRS C-2 judges to ask his opinion on which is the most accurate reproduction system. His answer was "Gardner". I have not ordered a system yet so I can't offer first-hand information, but their website says many features are accurate reproductions of original systems. However they are aluminized and they are not 1-piece. The mufflers are separate from the exhaust pipe. Gardner says you can weld the mufflers to the pipes after installation, which I suppose is true. My guess is that in doing this you would end up with 2 welds at that junction (the existing weld attaching the muffler inlet pipe to the muffler, and the new weld to attach the exahaust pipe to the inlet). I think getting to this area to make good welds would be a little bit of a problem and probably costly, not to mention dangerous that close to the gas tank. Those problems (in my mind) are keeping me from ordering anything. I'm thinking of calling Gardner again and asking them if they will weld the pipes to the mufflers as a special order. Their comment at the time of my initial coversation with them implied that the reason they make them 2-piece was because it is easier / less expensive to ship when they are 2-piece. Even if they agreed to do the welding I would wonder if they have the proper jig to get the alignment correct. If their standard is to not weld, they are probably not set up to weld in the correct orientation.
Doug

Doug, FWIW, I "tack" welded my Gardner mufflers to the pipes (C3) in place so as to minimize the welding near the fuel tank. Only 3 small tacks were necessary for each pipe. This kept the placement right while I removed the assembly, welded it completely on the bench and then re-installed as a complete unit. Before I permanently welded the 2 pieces together, I took each down and re-installed while still just tacked, making very sure my locations and clocking were right. It would be a very bad day if it wasn't right after running the bead all the way around the pipe

BTW, the Gardner system fit perfectly and looks/sounds great. Would choose it again every time; deducts or not. Seems to me that the trade of originality vs condition for alum (appearance and durability) vs carbon steel (rust) is a fair one.