63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

[Chuck G.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Chuck -

I think it finally got to the point where "alternator" became such a frequently-used generic word across the entire industry that it became pointless to pursue copyright violations, and they gave up.

Much like making a "Xerox" copy.

Chuck

[Richard G.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

BTW it was 1962 that GM first used the alternator. It was in the Air-conditioned Impalas. I thought it was 63 for many years myself.
Rick

[Ridge K.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Yes, it was - Chrysler had already copyrighted the word "Alternator", so they couldn't use it for commercial gain.

John did you possibly mean registered a trademark?

usually a copyright is for a book, article, manuscript, or art.

Ridge

[John H.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

John did you possibly mean registered a trademark?

usually a copyright is for a book, article, manuscript, or art.

Ridge

Ridge -

Yup, I should have said "trademarked".

[Jack H.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

There are MANY forms of silicone grease, some of which are niche market specialty items. Silicon (primary ingredient in silicone) is a semiconductor and rather inert at low voltage levels, hence an 'insulator'.

But, silicone grease can be 'doped' with exotics to garner the desired characteristics. Characteristics such as promoting heat transfer (dope with silicon carbide particles) but NOT electrical conductivity as well as both enhanced thermal and electrical conductivity (dope with carbon particles).

Generally, the silicone grease we see for routine automotive applications (lubricate spark plug boots, etc.) is not an 'exotic' and is typically non-thermal and non-electrical in terms of conductivity. The reason you'd use it for an electrical connection is because the mechanical interference associated with installing the connector winds up displacing the silicone grease, but leaving a residue outside the actual metal to metal interface that will thwart air invasion and subsequent oxidation of the contact surfaces...

[Al P.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hi Chuck,

My C2 Battery Gauge works but readings are high in both directions both when car is parked and running. And its not the gauge, I replaced it and the replacement does the exact same thing. I replaced the VR, Alternator and horn relay as well, same results. So it must be a wiring issue.

So after reading this thread I was wondering what the outcome was for your battery gauge problem. Can you tell me the outcome as this thread ended and nothing was mentioned as to the results after you got your gauge back. What was the root cause of the problem and how did you resolve it?

Appreciate it! Thanks!

[Richard G.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Usually the gauges go low from high resistance at the connections. Frankly I don't know how it could go high unless the wires are not terminated in the correct location. Also look for bad or corroded connections between the points the gauge legs are terminated. Most the voltage should flow through this wire. If it is defective the voltage could be forced through the gauge wiring. We are talking of some very sight resistances here. Connections have to be perfect not close but perfect.
Anyone else with an idea?

[Chuck G.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hi Chuck,

My C2 Battery Gauge works but readings are high in both directions both when car is parked and running. And its not the gauge, I replaced it and the replacement does the exact same thing. I replaced the VR, Alternator and horn relay as well, same results. So it must be a wiring issue.

So after reading this thread I was wondering what the outcome was for your battery gauge problem. Can you tell me the outcome as this thread ended and nothing was mentioned as to the results after you got your gauge back. What was the root cause of the problem and how did you resolve it?

Appreciate it! Thanks!

Hi Al.

I sent the gauge within the "pod" along with the gas gauge to "JR", aka Joe Ray of Joe Ray Parts in North Little Rock Arkansas. I don't honestly remember what Ol' JR did, but he repaired/fixed it and it's been working fine since. He might have replaced the "internals" and used my matching face, etc. I'm just not sure. My problem was that the Battery Gauge didn't move at all. Your problem seems to be that yours moves too much. The only thing I can suggest is to check/trace the wiring.

IF the gauge is "moving" too far in each direction, + and -, one would immediately think it was the gauge and not a wiring issue. If the gauge moved excessively in only one direction, one would think it would be more likely to be a wiring issue.

Chuck

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hey, Chuck Gonna be in Florida at the NCRS meet? Why of course you are! Come by and say, Hi! I'm in the same spots as forever and the weather is great for golf! So you know where I'll be!

On the subject of the Ammeter! The gauges have a viscious fluid in the mechanism to keep them from oscillating back and forth due amperage or movement! This fluid runs out and the gauges work but oscillate rapidly when a load is supplied or removed. Repos are available and will cure this disease!

JR

[Chuck G.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hey, Chuck Gonna be in Florida at the NCRS meet? Why of course you are! Come by and say, Hi! I'm in the same spots as forever and the weather is great for golf! So you know where I'll be!

On the subject of the Ammeter! The gauges have a viscious fluid in the mechanism to keep them from oscillating back and forth due amperage or movement! This fluid runs out and the gauges work but oscillate rapidly when a load is supplied or removed. Repos are available and will cure this disease!

JR

Yep, I'll be in Kissimmee. After all, I'm a Floridian now. Can't honesty remember what you did to cure my gauge problem, JR. You know how it is with us "old guys"..... we can't remember stuff. I'll definitely stop by and say "HELLO".

Weather has been GORGEOUS after that 4-5 day freezing cold snap a week or so ago. Hope these 60-75* days continue.

Chuck

[Al P.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hi Joe,

I purchased another OEM Gauge, and I hung it under the dash and connected the cars battery plug to it instead of the one in the cluster on my 67, and it does the same thing.

The dampening seems to be good on both the one in the car and the replacement, Needle does not flip or quiver, it glides smoothly to whatever the reading is (although now it is high in both directions, whether the car is standing or running.

It was perfect about 2 months ago for many years.

Should I buy another gauge? Do you sell them? Are the NOS ones better than the OEM'S? The one in there now is an OEM, and so is the "spare" one I had bought from Volunteer Vettes a few months ago. The battery test (blip it with AA battery) on the OEM one was good as well. And obviously the one in the dash must be working as well.

I am reading a ton of posts regarding these gauges and the wiring is a delicate balance of resistance for these meters to register correctly. They are very sensitive. Even when I open my drivers door to get onto the car the battery gauge needle moves very minutely to the left. then goes back to perfectly straight up when closed.

I checked the bulkhead connectors on the firewall and all pins are perfect. I'm at the point now to get to the starter side wiring and go from there.

As mine works but shows +40-20 amps when running and the battery is at 13.8v when motor is running, as I have a dc voltmeter in the car as well, so there is no overcharging going on - its just the gauge is reading high all of the time. (All components of the charging system have been replaced to no avail, so this must be a wiring issue.

Any ideas? Have you seen this issue before? I appreciate your expert opinion since you work on these devices. I'm pulling my hair out over this!

[Al P.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hey, Chuck Gonna be in Florida at the NCRS meet? Why of course you are! Come by and say, Hi! I'm in the same spots as forever and the weather is great for golf! So you know where I'll be!

On the subject of the Ammeter! The gauges have a viscious fluid in the mechanism to keep them from oscillating back and forth due amperage or movement! This fluid runs out and the gauges work but oscillate rapidly when a load is supplied or removed. Repos are available and will cure this disease!

JR

Hi Joe - Please read my post back to you above this one. Thank You - Al

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Al,

OK, let's look at what you did to test the gauge you bought from Volunteer. You said you plugged it directly to the battery???? If you did that and it worked the same way the one installed in the dash you eliminated a problem in the wiring from your regulator and from your starter. I just cannot understand the way you plugged the test gauge into the wiring.
Let's just assume that the voltage is OK BUT you might be throwing more amps around than you think. Have you checked the regulator and have you checked the battery under a load. There is a tester that will impose a heavy load on the battery and make sure it holds a charge under load. I think the Autozone stores will do this for you. Maybe O'Rileys! I would find another regulator and plug it in for a test.
Keep us posted as we are want to know what you find.

JR

[William C.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Actually it's worse than that, they actually measure the voltage drop across a length of wire in the engine compartment and infer the charge rate from that measurement. Tricky little devils, and most common problem is deterioration at the connections, especially that pesky one under the steering column at the front of dash (Firewall)

[Al P.]

Re: 63 Ammeter. NOS vs. GM Resto Parts vs. Reproduction

Hi Joe,

Joe Question 1: OK, let's look at what you did to test the gauge you bought from Volunteer. You said you plugged it directly to the battery????

Al Answer: NO - I tested the new gauge I bought on the bench with a 1.5v AA battery by simply connecting one side of the battery to one post of the guage and the other post of the AA battery to the other post of the gauge - The guage needle deflects one way and when the polarity of the AA battery is reversed to the battery gauge the needle deflects to the other side - meaning that the gauge is good.

Question 2:I just cannot understand the way you plugged the test gauge into the wiring.

Al Answer: I then unplugged the 2 wire connector that plugs into the back of the gauge in the dash cluster and plugged that same connector into the spare gauge - Results were exactly the same on the spare gauge, which would indicate that the gauge is not the issue.

Joe Question 3: Let's just assume that the voltage is OK BUT you might be throwing more amps around than you think. Have you checked the regulator and have you checked the battery under a load. There is a tester that will impose a heavy load on the battery and make sure it holds a charge under load. I think the Autozone stores will do this for you. Maybe O'Rileys! I would find another regulator and plug it in for a test.
Keep us posted as we are want to know what you find.

Al Answer: Yes - I have had 2 brand new batteries in the car - Same results and they both load test perfectly. The one in there now has a standing voltage of 12.66 when parked which is perfect and always is charged when I run the motor. (I have a load tester as well). When engine is runnimg my battery voltage is perfect at 13.8vdc. (I have a volt gauge in the car as well).

I have replaced the Horn relay, alternator, voltage regulator, checked bulkhead connector pins and SAME RESULTS. I have not yet check the fuselink wire from the starter solenoid back to the gauge for resistance as yet. The one from the horn relay is perfect to the gauge.
Please note that this problem with the high readings is in BOTH directions of the meter BOTH when car is parked and when car is running.

Example: When car is parked and flashers are put on the meter deflects left to 20 amps and back and forth as flashers flash the lights - used to be around 5-10amp reading before this problem started.
When car is parked and turn the key to crank the motor it pins the gauge left (discharge) to -40amps - used to be around half that or less before this problem started.
When car starts the battery gauge needle goes way far to the right to almost past +40 amp and then comes down to around +20 - never gets to 0 anymore - used to go to 0 before this problem started.

When car sits idle with doors closed the gauge reads perfect in the 12 o clock (0 amps) position. When you open the door and interior lights come on it moves ever so slightly to the left (discharge) and when door is closed interior lights go out and the gauge returns to perfect 0 amp position. (it has always worked this way for past decades - (before the high readings issue) when anything that requires power is used whether the car is standing or running.

I suspect that this is a wiring issue and not a gauge problem, would you agree?? (Spare gauge does same things)