C2 Judging Question
I've had my 67 coupe for nearly 25 years and only recently became interested in restoring it. It's a low option model with U69, L79, and M20...and I thought until a few weeks ago, that it also had N14 side exhausts as well...sadly there's evidence that it was added sometime after delivery. All else on the car has been reviewed and except for maintenace replacement items, appears to be original, unmolested. I wanted to go for Flight judging and Performance Verification, but the Judging Reference Manual raises some interesting points with regard to the side exhaust. Section 4, Standard Deduction Guidelines, Para 14, Added or Deleted Options, states that the detectable addition or deletion of any regular option is subject to a full deduction on originality and condition. Section 6, Performance Verification, Para 3, Judging Purpose and Standard, states that the detectable addition or removal of any option will result in automatic test failure. So it appears that the car could be Flight judged, but would loose full points for the side exhaust, not sure of the amount of that deduction. It also seems it would be disqualified for PV. This is a great catch-22 discussion, because even if I remove the side exhaust and return the car to the original under car exhaust, there will no doubt be some evidence of that revision and it would still be subject to deductions and disqualifications. It's too bad, because it appears to be original on all other fronts. Anyway, I'm not questioning the standards, just looking for some guidance...hopefully there are some judges on the Tech Board tonight that might offer some comments. Yes...I know that the car is now known to have this issue...it is what it is...I'm just wondering how to move forward. Thank you.
-
-
Re: C2 Judging Question
Pete, Take your car to a chapter judging session and you will more about your car than you thought possible. Your sidepipe issue will be addressed in person by people who can explain to how to deal with the changes done to your car. A great learning experence. -
Re: C2 Judging Question
Returning your car to factory original configuration would solve both issues.Comment
-
Re: C2 Judging Question
It's a lot of work (undoing the side exhuast mods), but it CAN be done, mon! You'll find various catalog suppliers have 'kits' to replace this/that fiberglass panel that was cut in the process of incorporating the side exhaust option. Then, you deal with the missing rocker molding supports that were not installed on the body sill plates, the missing transmission hanger bracket that supported the through-frame exhaust pipes and you'll have to provide the correct rear valance panel as well as obtain standard car rocker moldings... There are other detail items too, like radio ground straps, but the side exhaust conversion CAN be un-done.
Back to the original post, it's REFRESHING to encounter one who's read the NCRS Judging Reference Manual! Yes, you'll take a rather healthy deduction for the addition of side exhaust. There are 20 originality points and 20 condition points associated with the car's exhuast system.
In the most narrow interpretation of our rules, that's the minimum you can expect to loose and that equates to 40/4500 or 0.8%. That hardly precludes the car from getting a Top Flight award!
But, in the rules' most liberal interpretation, you'd lose points for the 'crossover' items that were affected (missing exhaust hanger at the transmission, wrong rear valance panel, missing fiberglass in the body panels associated with the 'cuts', missing radio ground straps, wrong rocker moldings, Etc.). Still, these additional deductions will NOT stop the car from achieving a Top Flight award.
So, you have two alternatives:
(1) Keep the car as it's currently configured, enter it for Flight Judging, declare the deviation on you copy of the 'green sheet' in the declaration/exceptions section, and live with the point deduction(s).
(2) Execute the items necessary to return the car to its factory original configuration and live without the side exhaust system.
You are CORRECT that the addition of the side exhuast option should preclude you from passing a PV test. But, that's only a vital consideration for those who want to take their restoration efforts to the 'top of the mountain' and pursue the Mark of Excellence Award.
If all you want to do with the car is achieve Top Flight awards at the Chapter, Regional and National levels, you can forget about passing a PV test. PLUS, if you're willing to actually DRIVE the car to/from our judging meets, check out the club's proviso for mileage driven credit(s) in your copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual!
You'll find you can easily 'drive off' the effect of the side exhaust deduction(s) by simply putting gas in your tank and ENJOYING the journey to/from these meets! So, it's NOT the end of the world for you/your car...
There IS a place for you at NCRS with the car as-is!!!!Comment
-
Re: C2 Judging Question
Jack...
Thank you for the detailed and supportive response to my post. I had done some research into what it would take to convert the side exhaust back to original and it would definitely be deep into the details to make it come out right. As much as I would have liked to go for the "top of the mountain", I REALLY love the sound of those exhausts on the L79...giving that up in the hope of a PV and beyond is something I'm not willing to do. I can live with the 40 point deduct especially if driving to the meet, listening to the roar of the exhaust, will mitigate some of that loss...that has a nice balance to it. As I said in my original post, the car is unmolested with this one exception and I think with some work it has a good shot at Top Flight, and I'd be very happy if I can achieve that. As it's been suggested, I need to go thru a first judging to see where I stand. Thanks again for your insight, you've been very helpful.
Regards,
Pete Bittenbender
PS to Peter and Michael...thank you both for your response, The Board has always been a source of positive input...much appreciated.Comment
-
Re: C2 Judging Question
Pete, my car is "living proof" that a Sting Ray with added side exhaust, reproduction KO wheels, and over-restored paint (show car glossy) CAN achieve Top Flight.
My car took 78 deductions for added side exhaust at its first Flight judging in April. I have been told that up to 90 points can be deducted by some judges. The additional 12 point deductions, I assume, would be in the exterior section judging, where the front and rear quarter panels would be cut to fit the added side exhaust.
Here is the breakdown for my car's side exhaust deductions:
EXTERIOR
*total deduction for missing rocker moldings: 15 originality 15 condition
*total deduction for missing exhaust bezels in rear valance panels: 4 originality 4 condition
CHASSIS
*total deduction for missing under-car exhaust system: 10 originality 10 condition
*total deduction for missing exhaust system mounting, clamps, & hangers: 5 originality 5 condition
*total deduction for missing heat shields, ground straps, & exhaust tips: 5 originality 5 condition
I do not plan on removing my car's added side exhaust. As the seller of my car told me (ProTeam): "all the HIGHEST VALUE Sting Rays have side exhaust and KO wheels because that is what the market demands".
-ClarkComment
Comment