major steeing gear box screw up-help

[Stephen R.]

This is a 59 vette. I was in the process of lubing the stearing gear box using a hand grease pump. I was filling the box through the top plug when I noticed that the rubber end piece was no longer on the end of the hose but is now somewhere down in the box. Is there some way I can take the box apart without removing the entire column from the car? This box hasn't been moved in 50 years and I'm afraid once I start, I'm going to run into problems I can't handle. If I need to remove the enire column, what special tools will I need to remove and reinstall? What about just driving the car with the rubber piece in the box, it is a soft rubber nipple, what affect will it have? Help. and thanks.
Steve

[Roy B.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

I don't think I would worry much it may get pushed aside with the grease on the inner housing OR you could remove the side cover unscrewing the adjustment screw after removing the cover bolts and fish it out ,

[Stephen R.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

thanks Roy for getting back.

I'm going to have to read up on steering boxes.

This part in the box will bother me, however I don't want to cause bigger problems, so I'm going to try some simple solutions first. May end up just leaving that tip in there.

I'm going to see if I can fabricate some kind of vacuum hose and suck out the grease and hopefully the part.

You indicated that the side panel can be removed while the box was still in the car, and the part fished out. Can that panel be removed and re-installed without screwing up any of the adjustments?

[Mike M.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

thanks Roy for getting back.

I'm going to have to read up on steering boxes.

This part in the box will bother me, however I don't want to cause bigger problems, so I'm going to try some simple solutions first. May end up just leaving that tip in there.

I'm going to see if I can fabricate some kind of vacuum hose and suck out the grease and hopefully the part.

You indicated that the side panel can be removed while the box was still in the car, and the part fished out. Can that panel be removed and re-installed without screwing up any of the adjustments?

Steve:you'll have to re-adjust the worm and sector if you remove the side cover. the shop manual discusses the adjustment. you'll need to acquire a spring scale to make the adjustment. i'd let well enough alone if the gear box was trouble-free prior to the nipple injection.mike

[Stephen R.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Ok, I'm digging myself into the "Bubba hole of no return". In my haste to access the box I undid the worm gear adjustment, removing and reinstalling it while the box is in the car. Is there anyway of getting the correct adjustment on the worm gear without using a spring scale? If not, where can iI get a scale? Also am I correct that when you use the scale on the steering wheel (per the ST-12), the front wheels are off the ground ie. no resistance. Seems to me a 3/8 to 5/8 pound pull is very light. Or are thwheels on the ground and you just give a slight pull to keep the steering wheel moving.

By the way, the car/steering/wheels. etc have no been moved since I started this fiasco. And unless I can suck that nipple out with a vacuum (boy that doesn't sound right), it will stay inside the box, probably suspended in the grease.

Thanks from "Bubba" Steve

[Roy B.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

OK bubba you did it , time to sell the Corvette cheap !!
For me I just have the wheels off the ground haveing the wheels straight a head I turn the adjustment screw in till I got some restriction at top position when turning the wheel and lock the nut . It's been OK now for over 30 years but do what makes you feel good.

[Mike M.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Ok, I'm digging myself into the "Bubba hole of no return". In my haste to access the box I undid the worm gear adjustment, removing and reinstalling it while the box is in the car. Is there anyway of getting the correct adjustment on the worm gear without using a spring scale? If not, where can iI get a scale? Also am I correct that when you use the scale on the steering wheel (per the ST-12), the front wheels are off the ground ie. no resistance. Seems to me a 3/8 to 5/8 pound pull is very light. Or are thwheels on the ground and you just give a slight pull to keep the steering wheel moving.

By the way, the car/steering/wheels. etc have no been moved since I started this fiasco. And unless I can suck that nipple out with a vacuum (boy that doesn't sound right), it will stay inside the box, probably suspended in the grease.

Thanks from "Bubba" Steve

Bubba steve: to do the job correctly as the shop manual indicates, one should disconnect the steering connecting rod. i got a cheap digital electronic scale on ebay, a KYPS portable electronic scale that reads in ounces. think i searched for an electrtonic fish scale. hook the scale to the periphery of the steering wheel to read resistance. mike

[John H.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Our local C1 steering gear guy (Morgan Chemello) uses a Chatillon 0-10# pull gage; if you don't do these bearing adjustments right, you'll be buying expen$ive parts later.

[Stephen R.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

John, that's what scaring me. For 50 years that box and basically the pitman arm, drag link, third arm etc have not been touched. I believe they are as they left the factory. Now I get involved and start what could be a very nasty domino effect. I have limited tools, knowledge, experience and, apparently, patience. Just jacking the car up is an endeavor since I'm working in a 12x20 shed type garage.

I believe that the pitman arm is bolted on using 100-125 ft/lb of torque. That would be problematic for me trying to un-torque and re-torque it while laying on my back under the car. Removing the drag link also scares the hell out of me. More adjustments, frozen parts, realignment. If I had done this before and had some experience, I would try it. Just reading the ST-12 and trying to apply it, I find daunting. And with my track record, very scary. I would like to (and should have) left well enough alone.

I already made one compromise in that the nipple will probably be left in the box. I'll probably do what was suggested above, raise the wheels. tighten the adjustment until I have some drag and let it go with that. Not correct but the best I can do when considering the alternatives and my track record.

I would really like to thank all you guys for your help and advice.

[Mike M.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

if you follow roys advice and lash on worm/sector incorrect, you may have to pull the steering col and replace the worm and sector and bearings. expensive as john hinkley noted above. why not trailer the car to someone familiar with adjusting the 49 to 54 chevy pass car steering box as well as the c-1 vettes steering box. mike

[Dick W.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Steve, you are far from being Buba! He would never have attempted to ask the "experts" on this forum. You have had advice from some of the best in the industry

[Stephen R.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Mike:

That had occurred to me. Around here ( I'm about 5 miles west of Philly), the only people I know of who have the knowledge to do a C-1 steering box adjustment, is County Corvettes in West Chester Pa. about 25 miles west. It's still a possibility. I hate doing things half-assed, and this is will annoy me if I don't do it right. Still weighing my options.
Thanks again
Steve

[Joe C.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Mike:

That had occurred to me. Around here ( I'm about 5 miles west of Philly), the only people I know of who have the knowledge to do a C-1 steering box adjustment, is County Corvettes in West Chester Pa. about 25 miles west. It's still a possibility. I hate doing things half-assed, and this is will annoy me if I don't do it right. Still weighing my options.
Thanks again
Steve

I'm not sure whether or not the C1 steering worm/sector adjustment is any more critical than in any other recirculating ball type steering box, but I have adjusted dozens of them over the years without benefit of any special force measuring instruments. I have never had a callback for a "burned out" steering box.

One cannot get into trouble if one adjusts the clearance on the "loose" side; it's on the "tight" side where one can get into a lot of trouble over the long haul......................

[Stephen R.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Joe:
Not quite sure of what you mean by the tight side/loose side?

I do have a couple of new questions however:

1. Are the lash and worm adjustments interdependent? In other words, if one changes does the other have to be readjusted? The ST 12 seems to indicate that the lash is done first then the worm. If I readjust my worm, do I now have to redo the lash?

2. What exactly does the worm adjustment do? It appears to me that it tightens the two worm bearings keeping the worm steady, limits forward and back movement of the shaft and applies pressure to the steering wheel when the wheel is turned. Does it affect the angle of the sector shaft/roller as it travels in the worm gear?


Again thanks to all who have answered my questions and given me good advice.
Steve

[Joe C.]

Re: major steeing gear box screw up-help

Joe:
Not quite sure of what you mean by the tight side/loose side?

I do have a couple of new questions however:

1. Are the lash and worm adjustments interdependent? In other words, if one changes does the other have to be readjusted? The ST 12 seems to indicate that the lash is done first then the worm. If I readjust my worm, do I now have to redo the lash?

2. What exactly does the worm adjustment do? It appears to me that it tightens the two worm bearings keeping the worm steady, limits forward and back movement of the shaft and applies pressure to the steering wheel when the wheel is turned. Does it affect the angle of the sector shaft/roller as it travels in the worm gear?


Again thanks to all who have answered my questions and given me good advice.
Steve

Steve:

If the box is a recirculating ball type:

1. They are not interdependent, and the worm lash is not nearly as critical as the sector adjustment. The worm and sector rotational axes are normal to each other, but their relationship is NOT the same as a ring and pinion in a differential (if that is what you may be thinking). The worm bearing lash will not affect the way that the sector gear meshes with the worm via the recirculating balls and ball nut. It is best, however, to follow the procedure as outlined, in order to minimize "slop" in your steering gear. If someone has little or no experience with the proper "feel" when making this adjustment, then prudence will dictate that a proper "instrument" be used to measure torsional force required to overcome friction within the steering gear.

2. The worm adjustment varies the amount of clearance between the ball bearings and their races on opposite ends of the worm gear, along its thrust axis. It does not apply "pressure" to the steering wheel, per se, since there is no direct coupling to the steering wheel. It will create drag on the ball bearings if adjusted too tightly, which will be perceived as "pressure" on the steering wheel.

The reason that the SECTOR gear adjustment is extremely critical, is because the sector gear is tapered in cross section. The tighter that the adjustment screw is turned, the further that the wedge shaped sector profile is thrust into the ball nut's mating surface. If the sector is tightened to zero lash, the nature of it's tapered flanks can and usually does cause it to bind onto the ball nut. Too little sector lash may cause the recirculating balls to distort, and possibly bind within the ball nut/ball guides/worm shaft. Again, too loose here will do no harm......but too tight certainly may.

Since the box is a worm and roller type (thanks Bill M.), then some of the above will not apply. The two separate lash adjustments are still NOT interdependent, though.

Joe