C2 Headlight Issue

[Roger P.]

Hi, my name is Roger and I am new to NCRS. I purchased my '65 convertible this past summer, and my family and I have been cruisin' "topless" in South Florida for 6 months. I have been in love with C2's since I was about 14, and after nearly 30 years of dreaming, it was time to make dreams come true (with some encouragement from the wife and kids). We're a bit lighter in the pocket, but I think it's worth every penny!

My current issue is that one of my headlight buckets won't open and close consistently (intermitent problem). Sometimes, neither one will open. Other times, both will open and close without an issue. It doesn't make any sense, but it appears to get better once the car is running and "warms up". My son and I opened the hood and used a mirror to see the motors and wiring, and I found a slice through the insulation of 2 side-by-side motor wires. We taped them, but that alone didn't fix the problem. Could I be experiencing a short due to exposure/corrosion of the wires (although they look clean)? It could have been this way for years. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help.

[Douglas L.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Roger,

Your situation might be mechanical rather than electrical.

Mechanical could be:

Internal gears in the motor housing could be worn. If that's the case, they can bind causing slow starts, stops, and rates of turn. First, try lubricating the shafts on both sides of the headlight. Second, remove the motors and check the lubrication at the gears. If nothing improves, check or have someone check the gears themselves.

Electrical could be: bad ground at the motor. Check the wiring to make sure the ground is good. And as you have already started to do, check the wiring harness itself.

Through the process of elimination, you should be able to sort it out.

[Donald O.]

C2 Headlight Issue

Welcome to the fun of owning and driving a C2

Your headlight issue could be the

1. Up/Down switch
2. the outboard connector on the firewall
3. The headlight pivot bearings needing cleaning/replacing

You will have to do some diagnostics with a digital volt/ohm meter to determine what is going on when the headlights don't rotate electrically. Is there power at the motor when the switch is operated and the motor doesn't run. Where then do you loose the power, at the motor connector, the firewall connector. Just keep tracing back to the headlight up/down switch and through the circuit breaker to the fuse box.

To check the rotation mechanically (This is best done with the hood up and locked open with a nut and bolt through the hood support. There is a perfect hole for this too.) you'll need to disconnect the motors from their plugs and disconnect their ground wire on the case. Remove the small 'dammit' clip from the anti-rotation stud and slide the motor out of the way. The headlight buckets should rotate freely with very little effort. If not....Its a winter project or an immediate project for summer night driving.

Use your Service Manual, AIM, and a wiring diagram and you should be able to fix it.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Don

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Douglas:
Thanks for your suggestions. In order to lubricate the shafts, do I have to remove the motors? If not, what kind of spray lubricant do you recommend? Is there enough room to get to the shafts without removing the hood? I still think it's electrical since it is happening to both lights, albeit at different times. I should probably remove and clean all wiring connections since the car wasn't used very much for 9 years by the previous owner. Now that I think about it, I had a similar issue with the fuel sending unit wiring connections. I'll take a look at it over the weekend and post what I find. Thanks again!

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Donald:
Thanks so much for your suggestions, too. It seems like you are thinking along the same lines as Douglas. I will do some further investigation this weekend and see if I can get lucky with an easy fix (lubricating the shafts and cleaning the wiring connections). I am somewhat optimistic since the problem usually corrects itself after some initial frustration when I first start the engine. Is it possible that as the engine warms up it is heating the old, thick grease in the headlight motors just enough to allow them to rotate freely? It sounds strange, but it could be one of those gremlins?? As I asked Douglas, what kind of lubricant do you recommend for the shafts, and do you think it can be sprayed in place (like WD-40 or a marine type of spray lubricant)? Thanks again, and I'll keep you guys posted.

[Stephen P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Check out the following link for an article on headlight repair. This is not a difficult project. Some say you can do it without removing the hood. I found it fairly simple to remove the hood and replace. It made working on the motors much simpler, but I also took my buckets apart. There's a great web page with a lot of Corvette technical information that has a great article on repairing headlights. Be very careful in cleaning off the shaft and remove slowly to keep the internal bushing in place. Hopefully the following link will work.

http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_info/body_&_frame/Headlight%20Motor%20Rebuild.pdf

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Stephen:
Your link worked perfectly and, as you said, the job doesn't look too difficult. I have patience and an eye for detail, so I am confident that it could be completed over a weekend. I will first try the electrical diagnostics that have been recommended with the hope that there will be a "quick & easy" fix to my problem. If not, your link will be very helpful as it has clear instructions with decent photos to follow. I'll let you know what I find as I plan on checking it out over the weekend. Thanks so much for your reply.

[Tim S.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Stephen,
Thanks for the link! I need to work on my motors before Bloomington. The timing was excellent!
Tim

[Donald O.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

I am somewhat optimistic since the problem usually corrects itself after some initial frustration when I first start the engine. Is it possible that as the engine warms up it is heating the old, thick grease in the headlight motors just enough to allow them to rotate freely? It sounds strange, but it could be one of those gremlins??

No, I don't believe so, more likely a case of electrical connections getting wiggled from the drive.

As I asked Douglas, what kind of lubricant do you recommend for the shafts, and do you think it can be sprayed in place (like WD-40 or a marine type of spray lubricant)? Thanks again, and I'll keep you guys posted.

I will recommend against WD40, but if you can get some "Slick1" or "SiliKroil" that will work, but the factory used something a little different....engine oil. But to do it proper requires a bit of dis-assembly of the headlight bucket pivot assemblies.

Don

[Wayne W.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

I will recommend against WD40, but if you can get some "Slick1" or "SiliKroil" that will work, but the factory used something a little different....engine oil. But to do it proper requires a bit of dis-assembly of the headlight bucket pivot assemblies.

Don

It is not a good idea to use any type of silicone, or spray oil under there. Get it on the bare fiberglass and you are asking for trouble later on. Use something that you can put right on the shaft and not get it on the fiberglass.

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Donald and Wayne, I really appreciate your experienced advice. From all the replies that I have received, it is looking more likely to be an electrical connection issue - perhaps with the outboard connector on the firewall. When the buckets rotate, they appear to be working fine. I will start with cleaning the electrical connections - including those at the headlight motors and wiring harness. If that doesn't solve the problem, I will then take a closer look at lubricating the motor shafts. You guys have been great! Thanks again for the warm welcome into the NCRS family . I will post the results of my weekend efforts.

[Donald O.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

It is not a good idea to use any type of silicone, or spray oil under there. Get it on the bare fiberglass and you are asking for trouble later on. Use something that you can put right on the shaft and not get it on the fiberglass.

Slick1 is teflon based and while it is in a spray can, I never encourage the "If a little is good, too much is better" thinking. My SiliKroil, which has silicone, is in a one gallon can that I use a small brush with. Both are applied a few drops at a time.
I also said that the factory used engine oil as the lubricant, so hey if it worked for 40 years, either replace the felts or soak in lacquer thinner and when dried, re-wet with engine oil.

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Roger,

The first thing I would do is remove , clean and lube your headlight switch and connections . Not that the other things mentioned are not a good idea !

I say this for two reasons . One, This switch is easy to take apart and clean and is your first line of opperation in the headlights. Two , you said you have a rag top ,so it is not unheard of to find corrosion due to rain water . Back when these car were new they were daily drivers, and getting caught in the rain with the top down did occur ! I know this from first hand experience.You don't even want to ask me what my power window switch looked like !

Good Luck,

Jim

I say

[James R.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Regarding the removal of the headlight motors, one suggestion I read is that you could remove the hood support. The hood would then open up allowing for easier extraction of the motors. You would need to tie a rope around one of he male hood pins and secure the other end to keep the hood open. I never tried this. I took mine out without removing the hood. The space was tight but can be done.

Jim

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Headlight Issue

Jim and James, thanks for adding your thoughts and ideas to my headlight issue. I got an early start on the weekend this evening and took a look at the firewall connector. It was clean with no corrosion, but there was some clear "gel" like vasoline around the terminals. My car was body-on restored in 1990 by the previous owner, so I assume that he used the gel to resist moisture & corrosion. I cleaned off most of the gel, clipped it back in place, took a quick look at some of the other motor connections (all clean), and gave it a test run. Both buckets are rotating! However, I will check it again in the morning as my "you the man" excitement has been crushed before when the same issue resurfaced . My next step would be to check the switch and look closer at all the connections.

Even if I resolved the electrical issue, I now realize that one bucket is about 3 seconds slower than the other. On that motor, I can turn the little motor "wheel" freely, but the faster motor has major resistance when I try to turn the wheel. Why is that? As I continue to test the buckets up & down, the slow bucket will eventually stop working mid-rotation. If I wait a few minutes and try again, it will work and finish the rotation. This appears to be a mechanical problem as Donald and Douglas mentioned earlier. Can I try a few drops of WD-40 on the motor shaft without removing anything? I don't want to go though the motor rebuild at this time as long as it keeps working since I drive infrequently at night. Any thoughts? The weather here in South Florida is perfect - We just want to cruise with the top down . Thanks again!