Beware of White Post Restorations

[Clem Z.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Yep, that is what I do as well. I do start by opening the bleader port with a hose connected to it and fed into a glass jar partially full of brake fluid. I push the brake pedal slowly (cap is on) multiple times until I see all of the bubbles disappear. I have to refill the master cylinder periodically.

Then I do a gravity bleed with the cap off.

This process has worked fine for me on multiple C3s, as well as my 56. Have done it on other cars types as well. Takes about an hour to do a system that is completely empty when I start.

if you are using regular brake fluid leaving the cap off of the master cylinder for any length of time will let in a lot of moisture. GM tell their techs do not remove the cap on the brake or hyd clutch master cylinder when checking the fluid and that is why the reservoirs are see thru plastic. when we bled the brakes on race cars we used silica gel in the pump up garden sprayer that we used to pressurize the master cylinder to make sure we kept the moisture out of the air we used to pressurize the master cylinder

[Don Y.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I'd be grateful for any ideas on fixing this.

If that is the type of plug used in some of the early distributors, like the 905's and 906's in their cross shaft seal, they lock in place by putting a slight dimple in the center of the plug once it's seated in the bore it's designed to seal. Putting a slight dimple in the center changes the outside diameter and locks it in. You could try straightening the plug back to it's original shape and putting it in the bore then re-staking it in place. I just looked at the plug in the end of my 022 cylinder and it looks like that process is used to secure it. Although instead of a punch in the center it looks like a ring shaped object was used to dimple it.

[Bill M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Hi Chris:

Sorry to hear about your troubles with this plug. I can not quite visualize where this plug is placed on the resevoir (I'm a C2 guy), but apparently it is under no pressure during normal operation. I'd be tempted to reinstall the original plug with some sort of adhesive/sealer around the edge. Maybe JB Weld or something like that.

If the fluid you used was silicone fluid, you will have to work VERY hard to get the bonding surfaces clean, since even a thin film of silicone would probably affect the ability of adhesive to bond to the surfaces.

Here's a picture for C2ers. (For C1ers: I do have the original cap.)

[Harry S.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I called them a few weeks back and they wanted $85.00 as I recall to rebuild a ( 1 ) 63 Wheel Cylinder. Same hype, never spend a penny again on that part.

I don't think so.....................

[Joe M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Clem,

Sometimes the brake fluid stains the resevoir and makes it look like it is full when it is not. But then you know you have a problem when the brake pedal hits the flloor and you find out the line has rusted through on your pick-up.

Aside..... problems with SSBC and now defunct Classic something or other Brakes. Used to be these old vettes were not a problem stopping, but all this rebuilding and resleeving is a constant worry. Just about to put my rebuilt FI on and now I have a brake cylinder leak. SOAMFB. SO Attempt Made Fix Brakes...

Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

It's a plug about the thickness of a dime - something less thick than a quarter or nickel. It's 1 1/16" in diameter. It's not cupped, but it's got a dome that takes up most of the center. There is a flat area all around the edge, about 3/16" wide. It's stamped "5454480" and "320-G". I believe it to be an original piece off an original large number "022" master cylinder.

It fits in the machined opening in the cylinder. The opening is stepped to accept the plug. It fits in and comes out pretty easily. I haven't pounded it in there. Just pushed it in slightly with my thumb.

It would make my life infinitely easier if I could fix this in place. I don't mind so much buying a new one. It's the discouragement factor I'm now fighting. 2 steps forward and 3 backward. This darn job has gotten too big.

I don't think sending it back to White Post would get me anywhere. I need a success strategy to get the job done and some confidence in the results. I don't trust them now. And all they want to do is fight. I'm beyond that now. You know what your father or grandfather always told you. "If you want something done right, do it yourself." I'm either going to fix this one. Or buy a service replacement one. Whichever way I go, the goal is safety and peace of mind.

I'd be grateful for any ideas on fixing this.

Chris-----

The number "5454480" refers to the GM PART NUMBER of the original 53-62 master cylinder assembly. I don't know what the "320 G" represents. Possibly, it's some sort of date code or other manufacturing code.

This plug wil be difficult to locate. But, you probably want to retain the one you have, anyway, for sake of the "numbers".

In general, reusing a plug like this is highly inadvisable. These plugs are an interference fit and, once dislodged, at least some of the interference fit is lost. In your case, there may even be some corrosion or other damage to the plug or cylinder orifice which is the root cause of the plug's loosening and falling out. Here's what I'd do if it were me:

1) Carefully examine the plug and cylinder orifice for damage or corrosion. If there is significant damage or corrosion, that could be a problem. However, it's unlikely that's the case;

2) Clean the plug and the cylinder orifice with a wire wheel. Make sure that you fully abrade the contact surface for the plug in the cylinder orifice and the contact surface of the plug, itself;

3) SCRUPULOUSLY clean the cylinder and plug. You must remove any trace of brake fluid;

4) Lay down a very thin and even bead of a good epoxy like JB Weld on the cylinder plug contact surface;

5) Place the plug in the orifice and tap it down into place so that it's FULLY seated;

6) Let the epoxy cure for at least 24 hours;

7) Pressure test the reservoir to ensure that it's completely sealed. You must BE 100% CONFIDENT ABOUT THIS REPAIR. If the reservoir leaks down while you're driving, you'll lose your brakes.

Also, you need to be extremely careful doing this type of epoxy repair. You must get it right the FIRST time. If it leaks, it's going to be virtually impossible to go back and "do it over".

[Clem Z.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

go to a auto parts store and look in a "Dorman" catalog to see if they have the correct size expansion plug 1-1/16 would be a std size. https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-b...st=1422:1124:0

[Mike E.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

ALL original 62 (and 60-61) master cylinders had the 5454480 and 320-G designations on the front plug. They are not difficult to find, just a bit pricey ($125-250 or so)

[Joe R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Hi Bill:

Thanks for the photo. That does look like a potentially troublesome location for such a plug.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

If that is the type of plug used in some of the early distributors, like the 905's and 906's in their cross shaft seal, they lock in place by putting a slight dimple in the center of the plug once it's seated in the bore it's designed to seal. Putting a slight dimple in the center changes the outside diameter and locks it in. You could try straightening the plug back to it's original shape and putting it in the bore then re-staking it in place. I just looked at the plug in the end of my 022 cylinder and it looks like that process is used to secure it. Although instead of a punch in the center it looks like a ring shaped object was used to dimple it.

I've got the plug. It looks like it was never dimpled. No tool marks on it at all.

I see that Dorman sells concave expansion plugs in the 1 1/16" size.

Why can't I take the original plug or a Dorman expansion plug, and hammer it in there. Then deform the plug or the lip where it went in to make sure it can't come out? Would that work? Sorry to sound dumb here. I don't know how expansion plugs work.

If hammering doesn't get the plug tight, then all bets are off. But it seems to my uneducated mind that I should be able to beat a plug sufficiently to give me some confidence that it isn't coming out.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I've got the plug. It looks like it was never dimpled. No tool marks on it at all.

I see that Dorman sells concave expansion plugs in the 1 1/16" size.

Why can't I take the original plug or a Dorman expansion plug, and hammer it in there. Then deform the plug or the lip where it went in to make sure it can't come out? Would that work? Sorry to sound dumb here. I don't know how expansion plugs work.

If hammering doesn't get the plug tight, then all bets are off. But it seems to my uneducated mind that I should be able to beat a plug sufficiently to give me some confidence that it isn't coming out.

the original concave shape of the plug causes the outside diameter to expand slightly when you flatten the center if the plug and this is what holds it in place in the recess in the M/C.

[Joe L.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I've got the plug. It looks like it was never dimpled. No tool marks on it at all.

I see that Dorman sells concave expansion plugs in the 1 1/16" size.

Why can't I take the original plug or a Dorman expansion plug, and hammer it in there. Then deform the plug or the lip where it went in to make sure it can't come out? Would that work? Sorry to sound dumb here. I don't know how expansion plugs work.

If hammering doesn't get the plug tight, then all bets are off. But it seems to my uneducated mind that I should be able to beat a plug sufficiently to give me some confidence that it isn't coming out.

chris-----


You can do as you say. However, as I mentioned before, I would not use the existing plug unless I epoxied it in place as I previously described. I do think that the epoxy method will work fine if you do it carefully.

If you don't care about the "numbers" issue, then you can obtain a new plug and drive it into place, setting it as clem described. As has been mentioned, Dorman does make the plug. However, I think you will find the main problem will be locating one. These plugs are not used too much anymore and not many auto stores will carry it. Certainly, I don't think you'll find it in any chain stores like Auto Zone, Kragen, Chief, Pep Boys, etc. You'll need to find an old-fashioned type store that has a LOT of the Dorman orange "bins".

But, once you find one, you're only a few minutes away from having the job done. I think the master cylinder will be fine after replacing the plug. You can even stake the perimeter of the master cylinder orifice after installation of the plug, if you wish, as an added protection against it ever coming out again.

As I mentioned previously, though, you need to check the master cylinder surface where the plug seats to be sure there's no damage there.

[Edward B.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

White Post has gone down the drain in the last ten years. I've sent several brake systems (masters and slaves) to them for resleeving, and each job has required at least one component to be returned for reworking. The reworking was, of course, done at Whte Post's expense, but the downtime and general dissatisfaction with their attitude makes it an experience I will not repeat.

[Richard T.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I stopped using White Post many years ago and went with Apple Hydraulics as reccomended by Dale Pearman. My original 62 master cylinder was bored and brass sleeved many years ago (15 or more) and has been fine ever since. I also used them for a friends 65 power brake master cylinder and they did a great job. Rich

[Rich G.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I have used Apple once, because they are a short drive from here. 68 PB MC. They did a fine job. I've never used anyone else, but I'm happy with Apple.

Rich G