Beware of White Post Restorations

[Christopher R.]

Had White Post rebuild my C1 master brake cylinder. I liked their ad that after they rebuild them, "you'll never have to touch them again!" Lifetime warranty. Price wasn't cheap, but the turnaround was quick. Now I know why.

After installing new lines and the White Post master cylinder, I hooked up the Motive pressure bleeder. Instructions say to pump it up to 10 lbs. After 2 or 3 pumps, the front of the master cylinder blew off, spewing the contents of the master cylinder reservoir all over the newly painted engine compartment. Needle had just began to move. Probably hit 2 or 3 lbs when it blew. There's plug in the front of the cylinder that let go. Looks like a welch plug. This is a huge setback for my plans to get my car back together. Thank God I was using DOT5, and that this happened in the garage, and not on the road.

Just called Billy at White Post. He started out defensive, and stayed that was throughout the conversation. Repeated over and over that I must have done something wrong because they'd never heard of this. He was familiar with the master cylinder, and then said that this catastrophe couldn't be their fault because they never touch that plug in the front. I was dumfounded, so I asked him about that again. He explained his rebuild process and repeated more than once that that plug stays in place during all their process. His concern is the other end of the cylinder where they do the resleeving. He doesn't care about the plug end. I was shocked. How do you get into the reservoir and clean it, without taking that plug out? Don't you make sure the plug is secure before you return the master cylinder to the customer? Nope, they don't see any reason to touch that plug. He didn't know what a welch plug was. But speculated that that plug was probably an interference fit.

In the course of the conversation, I mentioned that this occured as I was setting up to pressure bleed the brakes. He'd never heard of pressure bleeding. I told him it was a common practice. He denied ever hearing about it. But he did know that pressure bleeding was the cause of this problem. Well he didn't really know that. He suspected that. What he really knew was this wasn't his fault. He didn't care about anything else.

Billy never offered to do anything. (What happened to the lifetime warranty?) All he wanted to do was assign blame to somebody other than him.

[Brian K.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I feel for you, I've had dealings in the past with them and they ruined a 69 Camaro master cylinder for a customers car. I swore I would never deal with them again. Sincerely Brian

[David K.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Was any repair offered? Did the warranty come up? So, what becomes of this master cylinder? Surely, someone can make it right. I know, it may not White Post, but where does it go from here?

[Brian K.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Well White Post didn't stand behind the Camaro master cylinder (he got paid). We ended up finding another numbers match master cylinder and buying it. You gotta love White Post after that! (he can't go out of buisness fast enough for me) Sincerely Brian

[Harold M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Thanks for heads up!

[Brian M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

I don't like pressure bleeders. I use a Vacula http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com...qx/product.htm
I'm surprised by White posts responce.

[Joe L.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Had White Post rebuild my C1 master brake cylinder. I liked their ad that after they rebuild them, "you'll never have to touch them again!" Lifetime warranty. Price wasn't cheap, but the turnaround was quick. Now I know why.

After installing new lines and the White Post master cylinder, I hooked up the Motive pressure bleeder. Instructions say to pump it up to 10 lbs. After 2 or 3 pumps, the front of the master cylinder blew off, spewing the contents of the master cylinder reservoir all over the newly painted engine compartment. Needle had just began to move. Probably hit 2 or 3 lbs when it blew. There's plug in the front of the cylinder that let go. Looks like a welch plug. This is a huge setback for my plans to get my car back together. Thank God I was using DOT5, and that this happened in the garage, and not on the road.

Just called Billy at White Post. He started out defensive, and stayed that was throughout the conversation. Repeated over and over that I must have done something wrong because they'd never heard of this. He was familiar with the master cylinder, and then said that this catastrophe couldn't be their fault because they never touch that plug in the front. I was dumfounded, so I asked him about that again. He explained his rebuild process and repeated more than once that that plug stays in place during all their process. His concern is the other end of the cylinder where they do the resleeving. He doesn't care about the plug end. I was shocked. How do you get into the reservoir and clean it, without taking that plug out? Don't you make sure the plug is secure before you return the master cylinder to the customer? Nope, they don't see any reason to touch that plug. He didn't know what a welch plug was. But speculated that that plug was probably an interference fit.

In the course of the conversation, I mentioned that this occured as I was setting up to pressure bleed the brakes. He'd never heard of pressure bleeding. I told him it was a common practice. He denied ever hearing about it. But he did know that pressure bleeding was the cause of this problem. Well he didn't really know that. He suspected that. What he really knew was this wasn't his fault. He didn't care about anything else.

Billy never offered to do anything. (What happened to the lifetime warranty?) All he wanted to do was assign blame to somebody other than him.

Chris-----

Are you talking about the expansion plug in the front of the cylinder RESERVOIR section? If so, I really don't understand why this would have been disturbed or removed in the master cylinder rebuilding process. However, if the master cylinder was a complete rebuild done by Whitepost, I would think they would have checked it out fully. On the other hand, something like this would be really hard to catch. The only way of testing it would be via pressurization which is exactly what you did as part of pressure bleeding. I've never really heard of one of these coming out. There must have been some sort of corrosion or damage which caused this.

It should not be too hard to fix it, though, and White Post should have offered to do so, particularly if this was a complete master cylinder rebuild by them and not just a "sleeve job". They charge a pretty substantial price for their complete rebuilds and should back it up 100%.

What is the exact OD of the plug? As I recall, this is a non-cupped style expansion plug.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Dave, neither a repair nor the warranty was ever mentioned. I wasn't thinking. I didn't have a plan when I called. I was just heartbroken because of the mess and the setback to my schedule. And scared because of the safety related aspect. I just talked about what happened. Billy just made excuses. I guess anything can be fixed. But I know I'm not going back to them.

Joe, yes it's that expansion plug in the front of the reservoir section. And yes, it was a complete rebuild. Not just a sleeve job. I'll get the diameter tomorrow. After this happened, I just closed the door to the garage and went in the house.

The reason I'm doing this work is preventative maintenance. There was nothing wrong with the old master cylinder and front crossover brake line. But they were old and I took the opportunity to change them when the engine was out. What I was after here was safety. That's why I paid the extra money to go with a full rebuild.

[Don Y.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

That portion of the cylinder would never be under any pressure other than atmosphere. I would expect a thorough overhaul to have at least checked it's integrity but a low pressure method would have never caused the failure(surge or gravity bleed) When that cylinder was designed or in use I don't think they were using pressure bleeding equipment. Of course that was before my time

[Christopher R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Thank you for your posts.

I'm not so much trying to figure whether or not the plug should have been able to withstand 2, 3, 5, or 10 lbs of pressure. I'm appalled at the blame-the-customer attitude, and the absence of even an inspection of that plug. But I believe the plug should be able to withstand some amount of pressure. At least enough to be sure that the plug won't fall out. Its job is to seal that reservoir. It needs some amount of force to make sure it seals and stays put. I believe you'll find C1 owners here who have pressure blead their brakes. I believe that before this incident, most C1 owners would not have hesitated to apply pressure to their master cylinders with the Motive pressure bleader.

[Bill M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Thank you for your posts.

I'm not so much trying to figure whether or not the plug should have been able to withstand 2, 3, 5, or 10 lbs of pressure. I'm appalled at the blame-the-customer attitude, and the absence of even an inspection of that plug. But I believe the plug should be able to withstand some amount of pressure. At least enough to be sure that the plug won't fall out. Its job is to seal that reservoir. It needs some amount of force to make sure it seals and stays put. I believe you'll find C1 owners here who have pressure blead their brakes. I believe that before this incident, most C1 owners would not have hesitated to apply pressure to their master cylinders with the Motive pressure bleader.

Thanks for the heads-up Christopher. You're right; I would have applied a pressure bleeder to my C1 master full of DOT3 without a second thought. That could easily result in a ruined paint job.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

[quote=Joe Lucia (12484
It should not be too hard to fix it, though, ....

What is the exact OD of the plug? As I recall, this is a non-cupped style expansion plug.[/quote]


It's a plug about the thickness of a dime - something less thick than a quarter or nickel. It's 1 1/16" in diameter. It's not cupped, but it's got a dome that takes up most of the center. There is a flat area all around the edge, about 3/16" wide. It's stamped "5454480" and "320-G". I believe it to be an original piece off an original large number "022" master cylinder.

It fits in the machined opening in the cylinder. The opening is stepped to accept the plug. It fits in and comes out pretty easily. I haven't pounded it in there. Just pushed it in slightly with my thumb.

It would make my life infinitely easier if I could fix this in place. I don't mind so much buying a new one. It's the discouragement factor I'm now fighting. 2 steps forward and 3 backward. This darn job has gotten too big.

I don't think sending it back to White Post would get me anywhere. I need a success strategy to get the job done and some confidence in the results. I don't trust them now. And all they want to do is fight. I'm beyond that now. You know what your father or grandfather always told you. "If you want something done right, do it yourself." I'm either going to fix this one. Or buy a service replacement one. Whichever way I go, the goal is safety and peace of mind.

I'd be grateful for any ideas on fixing this.

[Patrick T.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

A long time ago Joe Lucia said here that the surest, easiest way is to gravity bleed the brakes without a pressure bleeder. When I read that years ago, that's what I did and that's what I've always done. Takes some time though. PT

[Edward M.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

A long time ago Joe Lucia said here that the surest, easiest way is to gravity bleed the brakes without a pressure bleeder. When I read that years ago, that's what I did and that's what I've always done. Takes some time though. PT

Yep, that is what I do as well. I do start by opening the bleader port with a hose connected to it and fed into a glass jar partially full of brake fluid. I push the brake pedal slowly (cap is on) multiple times until I see all of the bubbles disappear. I have to refill the master cylinder periodically.

Then I do a gravity bleed with the cap off.

This process has worked fine for me on multiple C3s, as well as my 56. Have done it on other cars types as well. Takes about an hour to do a system that is completely empty when I start.

[Joe R.]

Re: Beware of White Post Restorations

Hi Chris:

Sorry to hear about your troubles with this plug. I can not quite visualize where this plug is placed on the resevoir (I'm a C2 guy), but apparently it is under no pressure during normal operation. I'd be tempted to reinstall the original plug with some sort of adhesive/sealer around the edge. Maybe JB Weld or something like that.

If the fluid you used was silicone fluid, you will have to work VERY hard to get the bonding surfaces clean, since even a thin film of silicone would probably affect the ability of adhesive to bond to the surfaces.