Starter Bolts

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  • Joe L.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • February 1, 1988
    • 43133

    Starter Bolts

    A few weeks ago there was a discussion here regarding how to repair a block that had been broken in the area of the starter mounting. This is the sort of calamity that presents great challenges, not the least of which is the engine has to be removed from the car and disassembled to perform a repair.

    Obviously, the need to perform such a repair is to be avoided. A very important item to be aware of towards that end is to use ONLY correctly configured starter bolts for starter attachment. Starter bolts are not just 'plain, old bolts'. They are very special bolts and have several special features which are very important to their function. First, they are of specific and special lengths. Second, they have a very non-standard unthreaded shank-to-thread length. Third, they have a KNURLED section just above the threaded section. Fourth, for certain applications, they have a flanged head.

    The special lengths of the bolts used is critical. The bolts must be long enough to accommodate the length of the starter nose hole which they are designed to work with, but not so long as to bottom out in the block tappings. Two of the 3 starter bolt attaching holes on most blocks are blind-tapped, so exact bolt length is critical for these positions.

    Starters must be precisely located on the block if the starter drive-to-ring gear relationship is to function properly. However, starters have no obvious indexing feature (e.g. dowel pin(s)) to ensure precise location. However, there IS an indexing feature which is not so obvious to many. I'll get to this in a minute after explaining some other starter mounting features.

    The block's starter mounting pad is fitted with 3 tapped holes. The 2 holes closest the rear of the block are used for mounting the ALUMINUM starter nose used for all 12-3/4" flywheel/flexplate applications. This starter nose uses 2 attching bolts of different lengths. One bolt is 1.84" long and the other is 4.66" long. Each of these bolts has a flanged head since the head bears on aluminum material.

    An additional tapped hole is located about 1-3/4" to the rear of the other holes and not perpendicular to either of them. This tapping is used in conjunction with the outermost of the other two tappings to mount the CAST IRON and ALUMINUM noses used for starters used with 14" flywheels or flexplates. The cast iron starter nose uses 2 bolts of 3.63" length; the aluminum nose uses 2 bolts of 4.66" length.

    With a single exception, over the course of 1963-96 Corvettes, only 3 basic design starter bolts have been used on Corvettes-----the 1.84" bolt, the 4.66" bolt, and the 3.63" bolt. There have been 7 different part numbers for the 1.84" bolt, 5 different part numbers for the 4.66" bolt, and only 1 part number for the 3.63" bolt. Within a length, all are interchangeable and virtually identical except earlier versions of the 1.84" and 4.66" bolts are SAE grade 8 while later versions are SAE grade 5. The 3.63" bolt is SAE grade 5. All bolts use 3/8-16 thread size.

    So, how does the starter indexing work? Well, first of all, there are the tappings in the block. If you examine these carefully, you will find that these are more than just a tapped bolt hole. There is a 1/4" deep, 0.381-0.382" counterbore for each of the holes.

    Second, the lowermost portion of the bolt holes in the starter nose are the same OD as the block bolt hole counterbores.

    Third, there is the knurled area on the bolts. The knurling creates an effective OD of 0.380". So, the combination of the knurled bolts, starter nose lower hole OD and the counterbores in the block effectively indexes the starter to the exact mounting location necessary. Of course, for all this to work as designed, the proper bolts have to be used.

    In addition to the proper bolts, the bolts have to be installed correctly. This means NO lock or flat washers under the bolt head. If one installs washers, it will cause the short length of knurled engagement in the block counterbores to be reduced to "0". This means the indexing feature is lost. (Note: in case you're wondering, the thin eye terminal on the grounding wire attached to one of the bolts causes no problem).

    So, in case you're wondering what the ONE exception is to the 3 bolts described above for all 63-96 Corvette applications, the exception is 1982. 1982 Corvettes, which, incidentally, used the same starter nose as all 1970-81 Corvettes with auto trans, used a different starter bolt. It was originally GM #14037730 and later GM #12337924. This bolt is 4.66" in length, very similar to the 4.66" bolts used for many 1963-81 applications and uses 3/8-16 thread size like all other 63-96 starter bolts. However, there are 2 important differences. First, the shank OD is slightly larger at 0.390". Second, the knurled area is a TWO-STAGE OD. The upper portion which contacts the bore of the starter nose is 0.399" OD and the lower portion, which contacts the block counterbore is 0.380" (like the knurling on all of the other bolts). Although the only year this bolt was used on a 63-96 Corvette was 1982, it was used on many other GM applications of the 1982+ period. Why was this done? I have no idea.

    Pictured below are the three 63-96 bolts (except 1982). Also pictured is the 1982-only bolt.
    Attached Files
    In Appreciation of John Hinckley
  • Clem Z.
    Expired
    • January 1, 2006
    • 9427

    #2
    Re: Starter Bolts

    also most SHP engine had the starter brace to the block on the front of the starter. if you ever watched a starter that did not have that brace while starting the engine you would know why it is there. you can see the whole starter actually move around while cranking the engine. without that brace and the proper bolts if the engine "kicks back" there is a reason for the broken block

    Comment

    • Terry M.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • October 1, 1980
      • 15541

      #3
      Re: Starter Bolts

      Outstanding information Joe. The moderators should make this a sticky to keep it at the top.
      Thank you for sharing.
      Terry

      Comment

      • Ray G.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • June 1, 1986
        • 1187

        #4
        Re: Starter Bolts, Thanks Joe.

        My father said "you learn when you listen and read, so keep your yap shut".
        Ray
        And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
        I hope you dance


        Comment

        • Bob J.
          Very Frequent User
          • December 1, 1977
          • 712

          #5
          Re: Starter Bolts

          Thats nice research Joe.
          On 63 Corvettes GM did use a special thick flat washer under the short bolt, it was part# 3765135. Bob

          Comment

          • Clem Z.
            Expired
            • January 1, 2006
            • 9427

            #6
            Re: Starter Bolts

            Originally posted by Bob Jorjorian (1619)
            Thats nice research Joe.
            On 63 Corvettes GM did use a special thick flat washer under the short bolt, it was part# 3765135. Bob
            was that because the battery ground cable was connected there ????

            Comment

            • Bob J.
              Very Frequent User
              • December 1, 1977
              • 712

              #7
              Re: Starter Bolts

              Originally posted by Clem Zahrobsky (45134)
              was that because the battery ground cable was connected there ????
              Not sure Clem..........later years used the same location for the battery ground cable. ???

              Comment

              • Richard F.
                Very Frequent User
                • June 1, 1986
                • 193

                #8
                Re: Starter Bolts

                Joe, Your fascinating post leads me to a question. My 68, which I've had since early eighties, has the small bellhousing. The bolts are both grade 5, are both knurled, and have "M" headmarks. I've always suspected that they are not original. Any thoughts? Thanks.

                Comment

                • Joe L.
                  Beyond Control Poster
                  • February 1, 1988
                  • 43133

                  #9
                  Re: Starter Bolts

                  Originally posted by Richard Flanagan (9850)
                  Joe, Your fascinating post leads me to a question. My 68, which I've had since early eighties, has the small bellhousing. The bolts are both grade 5, are both knurled, and have "M" headmarks. I've always suspected that they are not original. Any thoughts? Thanks.
                  Richard------

                  I think they are possibly original. I'm not sure exactly when the change to grade 5 occurred. However, I would expect at least the long bolt to be grade 8. I'm not sure, though.
                  In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                  Comment

                  • Joe L.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • February 1, 1988
                    • 43133

                    #10
                    Re: Starter Bolts

                    Originally posted by Clem Zahrobsky (45134)
                    also most SHP engine had the starter brace to the block on the front of the starter. if you ever watched a starter that did not have that brace while starting the engine you would know why it is there. you can see the whole starter actually move around while cranking the engine. without that brace and the proper bolts if the engine "kicks back" there is a reason for the broken block
                    clem----


                    Absolutely. The forward brace is absolutely critical, too. I believe all 63+ Corvettes used the brace. Some passenger cars might not, though. I would NEVER operate a starter without the brace installed.
                    In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                    Comment

                    • Joe L.
                      Beyond Control Poster
                      • February 1, 1988
                      • 43133

                      #11
                      Re: Starter Bolts

                      Originally posted by Bob Jorjorian (1619)
                      Thats nice research Joe.
                      On 63 Corvettes GM did use a special thick flat washer under the short bolt, it was part# 3765135. Bob
                      Bob-----


                      1963 used a one-year-only short starter bolt. It was GM #3795470. I suspect that the 3765135 washer was required to make the bolt fit properly as far as the positioning of the knurled section was concerned. For 1964, a different bolt was used which, apparently, eliminated the need for the washer. No washer was ever subsequently used. If a replacement bolt is used for a 1963, I fully expect that the washer should be eliminated.

                      The 3765135 washer was 13/32" ID, 11/16" OD, 3/32" thick, and zinc plated.
                      In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                      Comment

                      • Harry S.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • August 1, 2002
                        • 5187

                        #12
                        Re: Starter Bolts

                        Joe, do you have the spec's. on the 63 bolt?

                        Thanks

                        Harry


                        Comment

                        • Tom O.
                          Expired
                          • October 24, 2006
                          • 28

                          #13
                          Re: Starter Bolts

                          Joe,

                          Thanks for a really excellent and informative discussion of starter bolts.

                          I have to attach a starter to a 1959 283 that has been rebuilt from scratch. Currently, I have no bolts. Is there anything I need to know about that?

                          Tom

                          Comment

                          • Timothy B.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • May 1, 1983
                            • 5173

                            #14
                            Re: Starter Bolts

                            I can't help but wonder about the reason for a spacer #3819824 just for all 1963 W/O P.G. I would think all the starters and blocks are the same so why a spacer for 63. Could this have something to do with the washer and 63 only bolt.

                            Comment

                            • Lyndon S.
                              Expired
                              • May 1, 1988
                              • 1027

                              #15
                              Re: Starter Bolts

                              Comment

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