Horn and ammeter problems

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  • Dennis O.
    Expired
    • December 1, 1988
    • 438

    Horn and ammeter problems

    Hi,

    I'm new here, but not to Corvettes. I bought my first one new in June of 1967. It was a Sunfire Yellow 350HP four speed coupe witb leather, power brakes, and tinted glass. I sold it two years later to exercise a stock option in the company I was working for, which netted me nothing. In 1987, I realized the error of my ways and bought a good original Goodwood Green '67 coupe with a 350 HP four speed, power steering, a vinyl interior, and power windows. At the advanced age of 65, I now think that Goodwood Green is a better color for a coupe than the yellow.

    Anyway, when I bought the car in '87, I went to the local Chevrolet dealership and bought every new part I could find. This is the root of my current problem. I started a restoration on the car a couple of years ago. Being a "long-time" owner, I thought I knew more than I did, and wasn't quite careful enough when I took it apart.

    My current problem involves the horn relay. The horns don't work (they will work if I "hot-wire" them) and neither does the ammeter. After looking at the wiring diagrams, I came to the conclusion that these problems were probably related. I have been messing with this for two weeks and am getting nowhere, so I thought I'd try here. Here are my problems. The horn relay I bought in '87 is part number 1115889; according to the AIM and the '67 judging manual, it should be 1115837. So much for Chevrolet having the correct parts in 1987. I did some searching on this forum, and it appears the original relay should have 2 screw terminal and 2 spade terminals. The later part has 3 spade terminals. Is the later relay a functional replacement for the 114837? If so, which of the spade terminals do you use? Also, the wiring diagrams show a 20 G Orange wire (fusible link) connected to a 16 GA Black and White wire that goes to the Ammeter. I have looked for the life of me, and can't find a trace of that wire, or any sign it was removed. The car has it's original wiring harness, and besides being a little brittle, everything else works fine; it doesn't appear to be butchered at all. You may not believe this, but I don't remember if the ammeter ever worked over the last 20 years, the needle was always around the middle, and the battery never went down. I am a bit hesitant in unwrapping the wiring harness to look for the missing wire, but if somone can assure me it's there, I'll look for it. In searching the threads, I see that some other folks had their relays mounted upside-down (cannister down). I had mine in that way because I thought it was right. The car starts, runs and charges fine, so I have to believe there is something simple wrong, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Any help will be appreciated. By the way, this is a March built car.
    Last edited by Dennis O.; April 6, 2008, 08:36 PM.
  • William C.
    NCRS Past President
    • June 1, 1975
    • 6037

    #2
    Re: Horn and ammeter problems

    One problem immediately is that the correct horn relay grounds thru the mounting bracket. The '889 has a plastic mounting bracket that is non-conductive. The extra terminal is for the ground, which on your original wiring harness was a ring terminal secured to the mounting bolt. There are better approximations of the original available from aftermarket sources and usually some originals can be found in the "Driveline" or e--- auctions. Once the horns work you can start on the ammeter. It actualy is a sensitive voltmeter that measures voltage drop across a wire in the harness and uses that to impute a charging rate. Start with the horn, and refer to the archives as there are several discussions on this topic there.
    Bill Clupper #618

    Comment

    • Stephen L.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • June 1, 1984
      • 3146

      #3
      Re: Horn and ammeter problems

      The Black wire w/white tracer coming from the ammeter feeding the orange fusible link is actually located adjacent to the voltage reg. It feeds an orange fusible link that is connected to a #10 red wire which then goes back into the harness and terminates at the horn relay. The other side of the ammeter, #16 black wire, terminates at the starter thru another orange fusible link. If the ammeter doesn't work check those fusible links.

      Comment

      • Dennis O.
        Expired
        • December 1, 1988
        • 438

        #4
        Re: Horn and ammeter problems

        Gentlemen,

        Thank you for your quick responses; I think they will help me out. I had done a search on "horn relay", "1115837", and "115889" before I posted, but they didn't give me what I needed, I did them again just now and reexamined the the results, and I still have a couple of questions. (From posting on the "H.A.M.B." board, I know that not searching before asking a question is "bad form".)

        Let me preface this by stating that I will be searching for the proper 1115837 relay (there are none on e-Xxx at the present; I'd rather find my own at a swap meet or boneyard though). William, from what you're saying, it looks like I can probably make the 1115899 work in the interim by grounding the proper 3rd spade terminal. Is this correct? I have gone over the thing with my multi-meter, and it seems to have continuity where it should, and I think I've figured out the 4 terminals the 837 uses, so the one remaining should be for ground. Stephen, are you saying that the orange fusible link for the ammeter comes from the voltage regulator, not the horn relay? I noticed that there arer 2 orange fusible links coming from the regulator, and I can't find any trace of one in the wiring harness near the horm relay. I will also check the one at the starter solemoid.

        If you gentlemen could confirm my suspicions, I'll try to go that route. I don't want to smoke a wiring harness. Thank you again for your help.

        Comment

        • Stephen L.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • June 1, 1984
          • 3146

          #5
          Re: Horn and ammeter problems

          The fusible link for the ammeter is located/exposed in the wiring harness adjacent to the voltage reg. It does NOT connect to the reg, but only is located there next to the ones that indeed connect to the reg. The black/white tracer wire is exposed at this location, connecting to the fusible link which connects to the red #10 wire which goes back into the harness and terminates at the horn relay as a black wire (note: there is a connection of this #10 wire to the black wire as it exits the harness at the horn relay. Check you harness carefully.......

          Comment

          • William C.
            NCRS Past President
            • June 1, 1975
            • 6037

            #6
            Re: Horn and ammeter problems

            I'd check with one of the folks who advertises in the "Restorer", and get the correct relay otherwise you are going to have to butcher the harness to get a terminal to connect to the current relay and then convert back to a ring terminal when the correct part is obtained. try one of the posters on this board, Pete Lindahl, he may be able to supply a correct relay.
            Bill Clupper #618

            Comment

            • Jack H.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • April 1, 1990
              • 9906

              #7
              Re: Horn and ammeter problems

              There are two references in this thread for the replacement horn relay you bought. One cites an '889 while the other states it's an '890. The two are similar, yet different....

              The '890 has a metal mounting tab that provides ground reference and it was used in 1969 and 1970. The '889 was used one year only (1971), has a plastic mounting tab and ground is externally referenced via the cars' wiring harness.

              Both relays have an 'extra' slide terminal on the bottom of the relay case (opposite the two terminals that are grouped below the 'S' and 'H' emboss on the upper cover). The extra slide terminal is NOT a ground lead!

              It's the trigger line for Shark era car's featuring a key minder warning buzzer. Connecting this slide terminal to ground will cause the built-in warning buzzer in the horn relay to sound until the cows come home!

              The '890 horn relay should install and be downward compatible with your car's wiring PROVIDED:

              (1) You leave the 'extra' slide terminal on the bottom of the relay disconnected--floating, and

              (2) You properly install the horn relay and attach the spade lug ring terminal ground wire from your engine wiring harness to the relay's mounting tab as your copy of the A.I.M. clearly depicts.

              BTW, you'll note the Delco Remy cover for the relay is embossed 'S' and 'H' on both sides of the top of the case. That's so the case can be crimped in place in either orientation and still define the function of the slide terminals on the bottom of the relay.

              'H' means horn and this terminal provides switched power to the horns to actuate them. 'S' means switch and this lead connects to the horn switch in your steering column.

              It's child's play to test one of these horn relays by grounding the mounting tab, applying power the screw terminals on the relay's side bar, running the 'H' terminal to a load that's grounded back to the relay mounting tab and then jumpering the 'S' terminal to ground. The 'H' lead should power the external load whenever the 'S' lead is grounded....

              Comment

              • Dennis O.
                Expired
                • December 1, 1988
                • 438

                #8
                Re: Horn and ammeter problems

                I've got to be doing something wrong here. I didn't think I ever mentioned a "1115890" part number; only a "1115889"; I checked it over manually and used the "Find" function under "Edit" and never saw it in my original posts. Am I missing something? Also, when I checked the wiring harness on my car, I found two "20 OR" fusible links up by the voltage regulator. One hooked to a "B/W" wire on one end that came out of the harness and fed into a what appears to be a 12 GA red wire going back into the harness at the same point. I have tried to check continuity to anything that goes to the place where all the wires for the Horn Relay exit the harness, but I can't find anything. Also, all of my wiring diagrams show only 2 20OR fusible links in that area. One appears to go to the horn relay, and the other goes to the voltage reguatlor (which I also have on my car). On my car ( a very original '67 that I have owned since 1987 with wiring harnesses that appear to be original), there is nothing that looks like a fusible link exiting the wiring harness by the horn relay. I doubt that any one would have conterfeited a car back in '87, but I could be wrong. I am going to be getting a 1115837 horn relay to get things as close to original as possible, and I hope this will help me. At minimum, it looks like the wiring diagrams I have (the 1967 repair manual, the '67 AIM, and the book of wiring diagrams I got from NCRS a couple of years ago), while they may be schematically correct, do not represent the real world. After I get the proper relay, I am going to try to get together with someone who has a '67 with the proper equipment that works right.

                Thanks to everyone who helped, but I am either very dense, or there is a screwy situation with my car. (At least it runs OK, Drives OK, and charges tye battery like it should.) Seeing it is April in Minnesota, things are still pretty good!

                Comment

                • Stephen L.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • June 1, 1984
                  • 3146

                  #9
                  Re: Horn and ammeter problems

                  Dennis,
                  you are getting closer. If you stick a pin thru the black w/white tracer wire that connects to the orange fuse link which connects to the red #10 wire you can then check continuity to the black wire that is located/connected to the horn relay. This black wire is spliced to the #10 red wire mentioned above back in to wire harness. Send me an e-mail with your e-mail and I'll supply some photos. Your harness is probably ok unless its brittle or something.

                  Comment

                  • Dennis O.
                    Expired
                    • December 1, 1988
                    • 438

                    #10
                    Re: Horn and ammeter problems

                    I now have this all figured out. The source of my problem is that the wiring diagrams I had at my disposal were all very misleading in this area. According to the schematic, it looks like there should be an orange wire exiting the wiring harness at the relay. There isn't; there is a red wire that goes to the horm relay. The orange wire (fusible link) is actually exposed back by the voltage regulator where it is connected to the B/W wire. Also, the schematic makes it look like the black ground wire is hooked to the double screw terminal on the horn relay where the 10 ga Red hot feed is. Yikes! Trust me, I will be very careful when using these schematics in the future.

                    A special thanks to Stephen LaVigne for sending me some very helpful photos of his car and wiring harness. As soon as I got them, I could see what the problem was.

                    A word of advice for newbies. If you aren't sure what the wiring diagram is trying to show, get some advice from someone with experience.
                    Last edited by Dennis O.; April 11, 2008, 04:35 PM.

                    Comment

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