1964 pulleys
Without going into GM part nos., please help on the following. I have a non A/C with P/S. Is the water pump pulley 1 or 2 grooves? And, is the crankshaft pulley 2 or 3 grooves. My car has 2 on the water pump and 3 on the crank - don't have enough space to get the P/S belt on, and the alternator really doesn't line up correctly. Finally, the alternator has a gap filler of 5/8" between the alternator fan and the belt groove. Lots of issues here on a car that has been changed? Thanks for any help.
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Crank and WP pulleys are both 2 groove. PS drive pulley is a separate pulley bolted on in front of the crank pulley. Alternator pulley has an offset built into the way it's made.
There are two types of 2 groove pulleys for crank and WP..... standard groove depth and deep groove. Front to rear dimensions of these two types are different so they can not be mixed and matched. Since your car has PS, you want to have the pulleys with the standard groove depth.
Here are some pictures which should help. They are of a 'PS '63 but '64 is same AFAIK. (Second WP belt is an owner addition.):
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0082.jpgLast edited by Jim L.; June 20, 2024, 08:29 AM. -
Re: 1964 pulleys
Jim - thank you so much for the info and visuals. This tech. forum is invaluable for someone trying to put a car back together. My 64 car has been through a lot. I question what changes had been made to it; however, I do know that it had a big block radiator which I changed out to a new aluminum one and also had a 67 Stinger hood which I have kept in the restore. What else might have been done up front is beyond me - my guess is it may have been wrecked to the right side. My body man junked the entire front end and replaced it with an after-market. My S/N is 238, and I have found a couple of things which were the same as the 63 because it was so early in the production run. With that, a couple more questions.
1. My alternator pulley looks just like yours; however, it seems to not line up with the crank pulley - almost seems like it is about 1/2" off. However, I did not fully understand your comment about "has an offset in the way it is made." Your visual looks like yours also doesn't line up perfectly with the crank pulley?
2. Is the P/S pulley on the crank, the add-on, smaller than the other 2-groove pulley on the crank? Somewhere I remember that the add-on went next to the engine. That doesn't make sense if the add-on is smaller. I cannot feed the P/S belt onto the crank pulley, as the WP pulley seems to partially overlap the P/S pulley leaving little clearance. Maybe a shim problem?
3. Is the order of the belts on the 3 pulley crank from the engine forward for my non-A/C - Blank, then alternator, then P/S/?
4. What are the diameters of the pulleys, and how do I tell if the grooves are standard or deep?Comment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Notice that the alternator pulley groove is not right up against the alternator fan. Rather it is forward of the fan by 1/2" or so. That's what I was trying to describe.
The PS on my '63 was factory installed and every thing does align as it should. I think you are seeing an optical illusion caused by the camera angle.
The PS drive pulley is a little smaller in diameter than the main crank pulley.2. Is the P/S pulley on the crank, the add-on, smaller than the other 2-groove pulley on the crank? Somewhere I remember that the add-on went next to the engine. That doesn't make sense if the add-on is smaller. I cannot feed the P/S belt onto the crank pulley, as the WP pulley seems to partially overlap the P/S pulley leaving little clearance. Maybe a shim problem?
PS drive pulley mounts ahead of the main crank pulley, not next to the engine.
You shouldn't be trying to put the PS belt on the crank pulley. That's not where it goes. There are no shims.
That is correct. In my photos, the rear most groove should be empty. I added an extra belt to have redundant WP drive.3. Is the order of the belts on the 3 pulley crank from the engine forward for my non-A/C - Blank, then alternator, then P/S/?
I don't know the pulley diameters.4. What are the diameters of the pulleys, and how do I tell if the grooves are standard or deep?
The difference between regular pulleys and deep groove pulleys (such as found on the solid lifter engines) is that the belt rides lower in the groove on the deep pulleys. Once you've seen both, the difference is visually obvious. And to that point, here is a photo of a deep groove WP pulley. Compare the belt depth to that shown in my earlier photo.
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Also note that on the solid lifter engines, the alternator pulley is also a deep groove variety. The offset of its groove forward of the alternator fan is a little different than that of a standard alternator pulley. Here is a deep groove alternator pulley:
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Thank you Jim - the journey continues!Comment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Well Jim - back to you with a pic - sorry my q The WP and crank pulleys seem to be off about 1/2 of a groove as shown in the picture. In order to align and put on the PS belt, the crank pulley needs to go toward the radiator which is why I wondered if there was a spacer back there. I don't think the WP pulley can go back toward the engine any more. Thoughts?Comment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Ron, That is not a 63-64 water pump pulley. The lower Crank pulleys look correct. Try to source a correct pulley for the waterpump.
Regards, JoeComment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Thank you Joe. Should have posted pictures earlier, and Jim may have figured that out. But, the correct one still has 2 grooves? I have a friend who has lots of pulleys - do you know the height of the pulley? I am assuming it is about 6 3/4" in diameter? TheComment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Ron------
The first 6 words of your post amazes me. You want to solve your pulley problem but you don't want information that will definitively solve it? The fact that you tell us the number of grooves on the pulleys you have really means nothing. There are NUMEROUS GM pulleys that match that description. The only way to DEFINITIVELY identify the pulleys you need is by GM PART NUMBER. These numbers are usually always stamped on balancer, power steering pump and waterpump pulleys and sometimes stamped on alternator pulleys. This makes identification of the correct pulleys EASY and DEFINITIVE.
The correct pulleys are as follows. However, understand that these depend on the fact that you have a correct harmonic balancer and correct waterpump hub spacing.
balancer pulley-----GM #3744043---2 grooves, 6-5/8" OD
balancer pulley-----GM #3751232----1 groove, 6-11/16" OD (sandwiches onto front of above pulley and drives power steering pump)
waterpump pulley---GM #3790356----2 grooves, 7-3/32" OD (can also use GM #3900434 which replaced 3790356)
p/s pump pulley-----GM #3770509----1 groove; 5-47/64" OD
alternator pulley-----GM #3844101----1 groove; 2-13/16" OD; 3/8" wide groove (can also use GM #3871241 which replaced the 3844101) (Either of these is very hard to find: I'm not sure if they have an embossed part number).In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Thanks Joe, I haven't had a moment today to try to retrieve those part numbers for Ron!
Regards,Comment
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Re: 1964 pulleys
Thanks to everyone for the input. Problem solved. After 8321 posted a response that the WP pulley was not correct, I took the fan, etc. off and found the pulley was GM 3906656 which is a BB pulley for a 67/68 as I recall. So, now looking for a correct GM 3790356 to fix the problem. Amazing to me that my seller ran the car with mismatched pulleys.Comment
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