Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

[Michael L.]

Guys,

I'm getting my just restored tuxedo black '69 ready for judging. I had another NCRS member and experienced judge looked over the car and pointed out areas that I could address. One of the (many) areas he pointed out is my modern flawless paint will likely receive a full 45 point originality deduction. He suggested that if I "dulled" the paint in the jams and under the hood I could possibly salvage some of those points. Is there a way to temporarily "dull" these areas for judging that I can then return to their just painted condition after judging? I'm not willing to alter these areas permanently for the sake of judging but was wondering if there is an easy hack for this. Thanks for your help.

Mike

[Don H.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Mike
this question reminded me of some interesting threads on the topic from some years back. So I searched a bit and dug one of those threads out for you..
I think you will enjoy it, and also gain some insight into the matter at issue.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?94431-White-Rain-Hairspray&highlight=clark+kirby

You will probably also hear from other members who might have some handy hints for you..

[Hank D.]

[Michael L.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Thanks Don for pointing out that thread. I read every single post in that thread and it seems like there are a few tips and tricks to achieve this objective but members may be hesitant to "let the cat out of the bag". Hopefully someone will PM me their secret.

I noted in that thread that the OP was concerned about losing 85 points for both originality (45) and condition (40) but the person who looked over my car seemed to indicate that it was the 45 originality points I would be at risk for with my new paint. Is it actually 85 points I have to worry about??? If so that will seriously hamper my efforts to achieve a Top Flight I believe. Seems like that is an excessive deduct for nice paint. I won't rehash all the stuff that was brought up in that prior thread, I agree if you want full points you need to paint it with the products and techniques that were available at that time, but I would think that the deduct for modern paint should be a little more reasonable. (I don't know, maybe it would be more reasonable and if I had the car judged as-is maybe I wouldn't get the total 85 point deduct I just don't know.) Based on this criteria it seems I would get the same deduct if, after completing the body work, I had used a roller to roll on black watersoluble paint (i.e. that I could later wash off- not sure if this is possible, but work with me on this) I assume I would get the full 85 points for correct color and lose 85 points for condition and originality. I think most reasonable people would agree that both those cars should not get the same deductions for their paint.

[Daniel S.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Hi a member of my NCRS chapter had a 63 swc and told me he used hair spray on the door jams and after it got judged wiped it off got top flight too.

[Don H.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Mike
a full deduction for Originality also results in full deduction for Condition. The 10% rule.
You should have the Judging Reference Manual handy to know about all Standard Deductions such as Paint.
And be aware that Paint Standard deductions have changed since 2012. It’s now 100, 70 or 30% for NTP Paint appearance.

[Daniel S.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

I should have read the thread by Don before I responded 😔

[Michael L.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Sorry 10% rule? What's that?

Thanks Don I'll look in the NCRS store and get the judging manual.

[Michael J.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Yes, this has been one of the more "fun" topics over the years, thanks for a trip down memory lane Don......

[Terry M.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Sorry 10% rule? What's that?

Thanks Don I'll look in the NCRS store and get the judging manual.

Mike
The 10% rule is: If a line item receives less than 10% of Originality points it can receive No Condition points. This happens most often when an item is missing or so different from TFP (Typical Factory Production) that it doesn't resemble TFP at all or it isn't there to assess Condition.

PS: I second Don's suggestion about the Judging Reference Manual and add the suggestion you also purchase the 1968 - 1969 TIM&JG Technical Information & Judging Guide. I am biased about that Judging Manual because you will find my name in the front of it. I am proud of the team's work that went into it.

[Michael L.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Thanks Terry. I already followed Don's recommendation and purchased the JRM as well as the OM&PV test guide. I also have several copies of the last 3-4 editions of the TIMJG, including the latest. I buy multiple copies whenever a new edition comes out for every location I may find myself in need of it, (i.e. work, home, the shop). I agree it has been invaluable during the restoration and in my efforts to prepare my 69 to be judged, and you and the team are to be commended for all your hard work on it.

Based on the 10% rule I think I will definitely have to consider doing something about my jams and other areas to avoid the 85 point hit. That's a lot of points to have to recover from. I will either have to have them repainted or will have to find another way to simulate the proper finish. I may also have to plan to drive my car to whatever meet I have it judged at to get some mileage points to offset the massive potential 85 point loss if whatever I do doesn't satisfy the judges.

[Terry M.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Thanks Terry. I already followed Don's recommendation and purchased the JRM as well as the OM&PV test guide. I also have several copies of the last 3-4 editions of the TIMJG, including the latest. I buy multiple copies whenever a new edition comes out for every location I may find myself in need of it, (i.e. work, home, the shop). I agree it has been invaluable during the restoration and in my efforts to prepare my 69 to be judged, and you and the team are to be commended for all your hard work on it.

Based on the 10% rule I think I will definitely have to consider doing something about my jams and other areas to avoid the 85 point hit. That's a lot of points to have to recover from. I will either have to have them repainted or will have to find another way to simulate the proper finish. I may also have to plan to drive my car to whatever meet I have it judged at to get some mileage points to offset the massive potential 85 point loss if whatever I do doesn't satisfy the judges.

Thanks for the compliment. Full disclosure: T haven't led the Judging Manual Revision Team in quite a while. That job has been in the capable hands of Gary Bosselman. I have however participated as a member of the Revision Team for some time. You are wise to keep multiple copies on hand in multiple locations. I never seem to be where the TIM&JG is when I need it to look up something.

Remember the driving points don't count if your goal is Duntov Award.

[Michael L.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

Thanks Terry. Ultimately my goal is to get a regional and National top flight. No plan for anything else but thanks for the info.

[James G.]

Re: Best way to "dull" new paint in the jams and underhood for judging

The least "invasive" technique is hairspray... which I know has been done on MANY C2-C3 top flight cars.
Next up would be water soluable liquid mask thinned with water and then shot in a touch up gun -dries to a dull clear sheen...
Then mask and either rattle can satin clear or spray clear with added flattener (catalyzed clear requires about 30- 40% flattening agent added to overcome the HIGH gloss effect of the catalyst.)
FWIW the last car I shot for NCRS judging had 15% flattener and 25% thinner in the final coats of clear(which IMHO makes it appear more like lacquer) and 40% flattener added to the clear in the jambs and headlamp Bezels.