'64 Frame Markings

[Lee B.]

I am in the final steps prior to dropping the body back on to the restored frame of my father's '64 Coupe and need to apply the necessary frame markings. Unfortunately, the frame had been cleaned and painted back in the 1970' when my father purchased the car and don't have the original info.


NCRS Judging guide states that "a date the frame was pulled from inventory was hand-written on the right-side frame rail in a M-DD-YY format." However, in other post and forums, many owners report a date that is stenciled and not hand-written on the passenger side in the format of [Shift]-[Month]-[Day]. The stenciled dates where 4 days to 2 weeks before the stated build date of the car.


I contacted Quanta, who I purchased the chassis marking kit from, who stated "We have not found any information that any stenciling was done at the [St. Louis] factory."


So, in regard to a '64 frame:


1. Was there a date stenciled by A.O. Smith when the frame was manufactured? With the realization that they may not have been consistent on applying it.
2. Typically did the frame only have the hand-written when the frame was retrieved from stock and placed on the assembly line at St. Louis?
3. Or did the frame have both?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Dan H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Lee, the Vin number would also help you get answers on your frame. I think the 64 Coupe frame had 2 separate part numbers due to the addition of a gusset support to strengthen the box supports. The number changes in the AIM about 4/64.
Dan

[Lee B.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Hi Dan,
I appreciate the response. The VIN on my car is 113257 and built on 3/16/64 (NCRS Verified). The frame is an earlier frame before the gusset support change in 4/64. I am good on the part # portion of the chassis stencil. The quandary is around what is referred to as the "pull" date on the frame. Every example that I can find, the date is stenciled and not hand-written, as the stated in the TIM & JG. I have never been able to find an example of an unmolested '64 frame with a hand-written date. Plenty of '65 and later, but never a '64.

The other part of the puzzle for me, if I do decide to have it stenciled what date do I use? Every example that I have found or corresponded with the owner, the date is 4 days to 2 weeks prior to the car build date. My belief is that the build date is when the car has been fully assembled, tested and ready to ship. Again, that is an assumption on my part since I haven't found anywhere where that has been proved. I have found posts, where it was suggested that the "pull" date was the same as the build date or possible 2 days to take into account weekends. But the example that I have found so far doesn't support that.

If this date was really applied at A.O. Smith, it would have to be 4-10 days earlier to allow for shipping to St. Louis. Again, I am specifically talking about a '64 frame. It is well documented that '65 and later were hand-written at St. Louis.

I am hoping that someone in the community is more knowledgeable than me and can help.

Thanks.

[Dan H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Lee, my first 64 vin 8477 still had the stencils faintly visible of the part number/frame numbers. Couldn't find a stencil for the date, soooo, I vote for hand written pull date.
Dan

[Joseph S.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Lee, The Stencil was applied by the frame manufacturer. Along with the part number would be the date of manufacture. This date could be a week or more before the build date of the car.

We also see a pull date applied by St Louis in late 63 and all of 64, it would be hand written. This date should be 1 to 5 days before the build date of the car depending on weekends and holidays.

As always, this is just my opinion from what I have learned here at NCRS!

[Michael J.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

NewPassengerFrame.jpgHere is a picture of my late '64's frame when we restored it The judges liked it at the National.:

[Gary B.]

[Lee B.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Gary,
Thanks for the response. I contacted Quanta and their response was:

"We have only documented a few of these stencils on cars that have had the original frame stencil and are not convinced that all 1964 had a stencil for a pull date. It is possible there was a stencil for the various shifts at the start of the production that day as a way to keep record of total production during a shift or day. Please remember stenciling was done at A.O. Smith in Granite City Illinois prior to shipping the frame to the St. Louis plant. We have not found any information that any stenciling was done at the factory."

The directions in the kit they sell indicate that the 'pull' date is hand-written. However, there are so many examples of '64 frames with a stenciled date on the frame. As Joseph mentioned in an earlier response, it could have been 2 totally separate dates. One stenciled by A.O. Smith for the manufacture date of the frame and one hand-written by St. Louis when it was pulled from inventory and placed on the assembly line.

Logically, that seems to line up with the '64 examples that I have found and supports the judging guides. This could explain why the stenciled dates are 4 days to 2 weeks before the build date and Quanta statement that they had not found any evidence that a stencil was applied at St. Louis

For this discussion, what has been described as the frame "manufacture date", the stencil appears to be a separate stencil from the part #. I have seen in later years examples that the 2 was part of the same stencil applied at the frame manufacture. From the examples, for a '64 frame the part # was applied towards the passenger side near the rear wheel well. But the other "manufacture date" was mid-way on the same side close to the transmission mount cross over.

I realize this is all speculation and I am trying to apply logic 60 years later. But I appreciate the collective thinking of the community.


Again, thank everyone for responding.

[Dan H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Joe, can you give a sample of manufacturers date of manufacture?
Dan

[Dan H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Hi, what I wanted to ask was can anyone show me an original manufactures date 'stencil'? I've only seen the hand written 'pull' dates. Thanks,
Dan

[Gary B.]

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?120256-1964-Chassis-Blackout-Re-Visited&p=827111#post827111

Gary

EA765EAC-7D34-42AD-B152-2FAF32E6C55A.jpg

[Dan H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

Thanks Gary, I guess it is an early 64. Can anyone decode these numbers? Thanks,
Dan

[Don H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

I suggest First Shift, Dec 12 (63)

[Don H.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

here's mine. 1 1 20
First Shift Jan 20 (64)

Note- my verified build date is Jan 24

B7EA8314-49AE-4A77-99F0-A23D491C7736_1_201_a.jpg

[Gary B.]

Re: '64 Frame Markings

I suggest First Shift, Dec 12 (63)