1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

[Mike T.]

Having a bit of an overheating problem in my newly purchased 66 NOM L72 Roadster. The Roadster had a thorough Body-Off about 25+ years ago but as we all know, time can take it's toll on certain things like heater cores, radiators, water pumps, etc.
While freshening things up a bit, I noticed that the 66 dated water pump had the tell-tale leak out the lower weep hole so ordered a replacement pump from RockAuto. Did this about a year ago for a 454 that 'was' in my 65 NOM 396 Roadster and no leak problem with that one. This one now has maybe 40 or so miles on it and it's got a problem with overheating that may or may not be attributable to the water pump but the new pump is leaking, hence the reason for this thread.
One thing I can tell you about the current crop of replacement water pumps is that some of them don't fit. The holes for the hoses are all where they belong and the mating surfaces and attachment bolt holes do line up with the face of the block but, that mating surface is 'fat', no other way to say it. There's just 'too much' meat on the inboard side and I don't think this is a one in a thousand kinda discrepancy because the other RockAuto pump I bought a year ago had the same issue. That extra wide casting interferes with the stock stamped timing cover to the point where it will not sit flush unless you get out the grinder and remove about a good 1/8+ of material from that inner edge. That pump has a familiar name brand as it was a Gates 44088 but I believe it's made overseas
Once both pumps were 'ground down', they did fit. For the short period of time that the 454 was still in the 65 Roadster it worked okay and no leaks. I have about 40 or so miles on the new/modified Gates Pump and it's already leaking out the lower weep hole.
So, my question is this...does anyone offer a USA made casting Short Bigblock Water Pump? Names I've heard tossed about in various threads over the years include Edelbrock, Flowkooler and Stewart but I haven't read anything recently that says the castings are new or made in this country or that the internals are made here either. Actually I have read some complaints regarding Flowkooler that talks about the same problem with fitment.
And, if I decide to put a rebuild kit into the old 66 casting water pump that had been on there...are the water pump rebuild kits worth the effort and are they also made overseas?
I am aware of some businesses who offer rebuilding services, I prefer to do the work myself.
Thanks,

[Ronald L.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Why are you even messing around with aftermarket asian made who knows what.

Get a 284 original pump that has been professionally rebuilt.

There are hundreds of them available for sale...

[Mark E.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Back in the day, I would get a new water pump because that was the "best". But after a couple of non OEM castings that didn't fit, I now only use rebuilt pumps with OEM castings.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Mike,

Contact johnmeissinger(sp) on Ebay. He may have the good kits with cast impellers. I've bought them from him before but several years ago.

Here is a old post when I had to re-rebuild one I got from a "in"famous rebuilder from California.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?108979-1967-Body-Lift-for-Chassis-amp-Frame-Restoration&p=759905#post759905

Also in the Sticky "Update Page" I have a SB pump rebuild process which is similar in principle.
Water Pump Rebuilds using Reproduction Rebuild Kits - Rich M-2.pdf

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=58793&d=1424776346

Rich

[Mike T.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Rich - Thanks for the tips and threads. As I mentioned in my email, I found the leaking 66 vintage water pump to have an 8-vane stamped steel impeller but the clearance between the vanes and the pump body was around .074 which was a lot more than I was expecting, especially after reading that part of the 63 Service Manual you talked about where it says to keep it down around .010 to .0135. The previous owner had this car for 33 years and the buddy he bought it from had it 5 years so no idea if either of them had the pump rebuilt or if this is what it looked like out of the factory. I was expecting a cast impeller. The new Gates pump with the 6-vane impeller had a lot of clearance too, around .080 between the vanes and the pump body. I had the best of intentions of 'just' pressing the impeller 'a little' further down on the shaft of the Gates pump but when it finally budged on the shaft, it went down all the way and as you mentioned, the only way to get it put back to the right level would be to press out the shaft assembly.
I did look up John Meissinger on eBay but all I found for BB Water Pumps was this Seal and Gasket Set, no mention of a complete rebuild kit, unfortunately.

Looks like the only complete kits are the ones I see on Corvette Centrals website.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Mike, Your welcome.

John likely sold all he had. I'm thinking the only ones available now have the stamped steel impeller and metric sized at that, so even if you located a original cast type impeller, it won't fit on the smaller. Shaft of a new kit.

I found that out years ago as I described in my document.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Mike I just thought of this....

You might get your 10 to 13 thousandth back this way.

Support the back face of the pump on press plates.

Using your properly sized 7/8" deep socket at the snout bearing OD, see if you can give it a very light push downward. This will move the bearing/impeller assembly down, and if you don't go to far, it may work.

Note you will also be pushing close to the seal area so be careful. If you go too far you'll need to then go all the way out and likely need a new seal assy.

Rich

[Mike T.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Rich - I think the 'Ship has Sailed' on any attempt I might make to correct this short of a complete new rebuild kit. To begin with, there was a large gap between vane blades and pump body, nothing less than .080. After my 'press-mishap', they were tight to the mating face of the pump body. I read in one of those guides you mentioned, that the blades (at least on stamped impellers) were a soft steel. So, I lightly pried up on each of the '6' vanes but since the innermost part of the vane was flexing upwards less than the outer edge, what I wound up with is a tapered gap, as seen in the second pic, .013 nearest the center shaft, .085+ at the outer end. If I were successful in shoving the shaft down into the pump body, I'd no doubt have to reposition the front hub.
Two pics attached - one shows a uniform 'Big' gap between vanes and pump body, this is the 'as found' pic. The second one with the inboard tip close but not touching is after I tried to bend up the outer ends.
I'm thinking it's time to pull the sheet over this pumps head.IMG_9017.jpgIMG_9026.jpg

[Jaime G.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Rich - I think the 'Ship has Sailed' on any attempt I might make to correct this short of a complete new rebuild kit. To begin with, there was a large gap between vane blades and pump body, nothing less than .080. After my 'press-mishap', they were tight to the mating face of the pump body. I read in one of those guides you mentioned, that the blades (at least on stamped impellers) were a soft steel. So, I lightly pried up on each of the '6' vanes but since the innermost part of the vane was flexing upwards less than the outer edge, what I wound up with is a tapered gap, as seen in the second pic, .013 nearest the center shaft, .085+ at the outer end. If I were successful in shoving the shaft down into the pump body, I'd no doubt have to reposition the front hub.
Two pics attached - one shows a uniform 'Big' gap between vanes and pump body, this is the 'as found' pic. The second one with the inboard tip close but not touching is after I tried to bend up the outer ends.
I'm thinking it's time to pull the sheet over this pumps head.[ATTACH=CONFIG]107685[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]107686[/ATTACH]

You have the best water pump rebuilder in Scottsdale. ChevyKool. Look him up in the driveline and send him your pump for rebuild.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Rich - I think the 'Ship has Sailed' on any attempt I might make to correct this short of a complete new rebuild kit. To begin with, there was a large gap between vane blades and pump body, nothing less than .080. After my 'press-mishap', they were tight to the mating face of the pump body. I read in one of those guides you mentioned, that the blades (at least on stamped impellers) were a soft steel. So, I lightly pried up on each of the '6' vanes but since the innermost part of the vane was flexing upwards less than the outer edge, what I wound up with is a tapered gap, as seen in the second pic, .013 nearest the center shaft, .085+ at the outer end. If I were successful in shoving the shaft down into the pump body, I'd no doubt have to reposition the front hub.
Two pics attached - one shows a uniform 'Big' gap between vanes and pump body, this is the 'as found' pic. The second one with the inboard tip close but not touching is after I tried to bend up the outer ends.
I'm thinking it's time to pull the sheet over this pumps head.

Yes, but a 3 jaw puller could bring that out.

Or.... This may be absolutely off-the-wall....

You could drill and tap the impeller at the splined hub for, say, 10-32 at 2 opposite sides, then fab a 1/4" rectangular plate, drilled/tapped at center for, say, a 5/16-24 bolt. Align 2 outer holes and drill for 2 10-32 loose fit holes. This would be a puller with same principal as a steering wheel puller.

Thread 2 10-32 screws/washers into the impeller hub. Tighten center 5/16-24 bolt. Impeller is pulled up using threaded pull, versus press pull.

It may sound crazy, but I'd try it if I was knee deep in the swamp. lol

Rich

[Ronald L.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

You guys need to look up Ron Burke Chevycool or call Tracy Performance and get a real restored original. Both have many dates in stock. Then you'll save time trying to re engineer stuff that worked just fine 50 years ago. I put one on a '69 in late June and it sat and idled in the heat up here for two hours with no over heating issues what so ever. THey work if they are done correctly!

Gates is a hose supplier, they are only buying some off-shore hurridly assembled, Poorly Copied cheap part knowing they won't see too many complaints with cars not driven that much these days.

[Mike T.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

IMG_9044.jpgNot an off-the-wall idea, really. I pondered doing something like that myself but I just roughly measured the impeller hub thickness and it's in the vicinity of .150 tops.
A 10-32 (for a tad bit more bite) comes out to .185 diameter. With all the force it took to get that impeller hub to break free and actually move, I don't think a small diameter screw would do the trick to be able to lift it back up on the shaft. Then you throw in my centering punch being a bit off, followed by the drill bit wandering a bit too and think that sheet is getting closer to covering the patient.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Not an off-the-wall idea, really. I pondered doing something like that myself but I just roughly measured the impeller hub thickness and it's in the vicinity of .150 tops.
A 10-32 (for a tad bit more bite) comes out to .185 diameter. With all the force it took to get that impeller hub to break free and actually move, I don't think a small diameter screw would do the trick to be able to lift it back up on the shaft. Then you throw in my centering punch being a bit off, followed by the drill bit wandering a bit too and think that sheet is getting closer to covering the patient.

Ok I wasn't sure of depth, but the concept would have worked, I think.
.......
It's not that difficult to rebuild a water pump given the right kit and a press. I gave up on several rebuilders I've experienced. I had to re-build some "re-built" pumps. Maybe they had a worker or two that were inexperienced, unsure. All I know is what I've had to do over on several occasions. In one case, if I sent it back I'd have missed a judged event.

Both of those vendors mentioned have good reviews.The one other I dealt with had shipped a rebuilt pump with a rusted out bypass neck. It was a challeng to replace it. Another had a wobbly seal due to shoddy workmanship. I'd not have found that problem if I didn't have to pull the backplate to swap it for the correct configuration.
Here.. https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...905#post759905

Rich

[Dan D.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

I bought a pump from ChevyCool a few years ago. It fit perfect and works perfect. I would at least give them a call.

-Dan-

[Joe R.]

Re: 1966 Bigblock - Replacement Water Pumps or Rebuild Kits?

Save time and give Bill Mock a call about water pumps. His knowledge runs deep and he can help you anytime! His number can be found in the For Sale Ads here on the board!


JR