Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

[Gregory M.]

I have two questions concerning individual components on a car that I intend to have flight judged in the future.

1) I purchased an original red line spare with date correct rally rim. It is all original with presentable paint, though the rim has some minor surface rust. I plan to clean it but am concerned with wetting that rust and, knowing rust, it will only get worse. I am also fearful of using .00 steel wool to remove the rust unless I can clear coat it afterwards. Maybe use a satin clear coat, but will that be undetectable for judging? I do not want to re-paint the rim. What is the consensus of those who may have done this in the past?

2) Similar question with a date code correct jack I acquired. I originally thought I would put it in the blasting cabinet and repaint it, but it has about 60-70% original paint with only minor rust. I would love to use the .00 to clean up the rust and then some type of brush on preservative that would inhibit rust and maybe darken the bare metal as well. Does such a product exist? If not I could use the satin clear coat...any thoughts?

I suppose I would accept a minor point deduction for condition in order to preserve these components, rather than restore them.

Thanks to all and happy holidays!

[Brian D.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Gregory,
I'm far from expert on this, but here goes... if your definition of "minor surface rust" matches my definition, I'd recommend leaving both items alone. When stored indoors, such as your garage area, I cannot imagine this rust becoming noticeably worse. You may lose a condition point or two; however, applying any extra coatings will cause a deduction for Finish under CDCIF. It's likely this deduction under Originality will exceed any Condition column deduction because of the rust.
Can you post photos of these items?

[Leif A.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Gregory,
If what you are seeing is simply surface rust, I would very gently use "000" or "0000" brass wool to remove. If your car is going to be kept in dry storage, there should be no need for any additional coatings to protect from further rust. Attached is a picture of my original spare and wheel which has some minor nicks from having been mounted at one time. It's been in the "tub" for 50 years, in a nice dry garage when not driven, with no rust issues whatsoever.

[Gene M.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

If your wheel is anything like in Leif’s post let it be. Any judge seeing an original unscrewed with spare will enjoy the experience.

[Mike D.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Agreed on judging original spares. Leave them original.

[John F.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Try a light drop of oil or evaporust on a rag and dab it on the rust spots.

[Gregory M.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Thanks for the help posting photos...here is spare and jack...the jack actually doesn't look as bad as appears in photos...how badly will I get dinged in flight judging?

[David H.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Attached is a Guidelines for Judging Condition card from 2016's Judging Retreat. School was taught by Shannon Urton and this was a handout. (School was also at San Antonio National this year.)

Unrestored original parts would not receive any Originality deductions - any deduction would be for Condition.

Spray paint, sanding or steel wool scratches, etc to address condition (rust) may result in CDCIF deductions for Finish. (e.g. jack did not originally have clear coat or sanding scratches.) Hence, correcting a Condition issue may result in an Originality deduction. Gain points one place while loosing them in another.

My preference would be to keep the part unrestored original.

You can use Guideline Card to roughly assess percentage deduction re Condition and balance that against CDCIF deductions.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Are you going for Bowtie, or Flight/Duntov?

If you're not going for Bowtie then I'd try and determine how much of a "paint artist" you want to be. As you can see not all of the pieces of the jack were originally painted, so you can't just spray the whole thing. In addition, it was dip-painted, so to be accurate you would have to replicate that.

I guess my thought is that if you're restoring the rest of the car, why hold out on the jack?

[Tim E.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Greg - Looking at the judging sheets and using the condition judging guidelines Dave posted, a judge could evaluate it like this....

Standard wheels (including valves, caps, & weights) - 25 originality & 20 condition. Since that's for all 5, you would assign 5 originality & 4 condition to the spare.

Jack (including the retainer & wrench) - 16 originality & 11 condition. Let's say you assign 75% or those points to the jack itself: 12 & 8 for the jack.

If we all agree the condition of both items is only minor, the greatest condition deduction would be 25%.

That would only be 1 point for the wheel and 2 points for the jack.

It's likely a judge would make a deduction but as you can see, it's very minimal. The way wheels & jacks are scrutinized, you'd risk a higher deduction on the originality side by attempting a restoration. Then, if the restored wheel or jack gets damaged in any way, you risk the condition deduction too.

Tim

[Jaime G.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Greg - Looking at the judging sheets and using the condition judging guidelines Dave posted, a judge could evaluate it like this....

Standard wheels (including valves, caps, & weights) - 25 originality & 20 condition. Since that's for all 5, you would assign 5 originality & 4 condition to the spare.

Jack (including the retainer & wrench) - 16 originality & 11 condition. Let's say you assign 75% or those points to the jack itself: 12 & 8 for the jack.

If we all agree the condition of both items is only minor, the greatest condition deduction would be 25%.

That would only be 1 point for the wheel and 2 points for the jack.

It's likely a judge would make a deduction but as you can see, it's very minimal. The way wheels & jacks are scrutinized, you'd risk a higher deduction on the originality side by attempting a restoration. Then, if the restored wheel or jack gets damaged in any way, you risk the condition deduction too.

Tim

Leave the two items alone. Nice original patina. For the 3 points you will loose, you are preserving originality. That is priceless.

[Gregory M.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Thank you all for the sage advise...I agree and will just clean these items up and see what happens.

I plan to have the car flight judged in 2018. It is not a complete restoration with largely untouched frame and chassis. I am sure I will get dinged for condition there as well.

I have a bunch of items to correct and my goal is to 2nd flight, if possible, and end up with a road map of what I would need to correct in order to improve...

[Daniel S.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

My brother and I endorse the following, especially with items like you shared - take a small hit on condition to retain originality. As Gene stated, your judges will love seeing original items like that...

Dan

[David M.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

Zero NCRS judging experience here...Why not try a little WD40 (AKA...Water Displacement #40 in Mil speak)? Then wipe off the excess with a non abrasive wipe-all. Do this annually as needed. This is how I keep raw metal or cast parts such as master cylinders and tie rod ends from flash rusting. Im not sure what if any deductions would be induced by trace amounts of WD40. If its wiped off well after application Id say its undetectable and will preserve the part from further oxidation. Just my two cents.

[Gregory M.]

Re: Preservation vs. Restoration Questions

That is what I am looking for...something that prevents flash rusting but is not detectable...I am going to try that on jack...but on rim?