Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

**Michael W.** · June 18, 2017, 12:42 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

If the valve is balanced, how can the wheel still go to the left?

**Joe L.** · June 18, 2017, 01:09 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Originally posted by David Morland (42626)

Hi all,
Finishing up the front suspension and steering system refresh. I have what I think is a problem? After installing all new steering components...everything except the steering box, the wheel jerks to the left when you put it at the left lock position with the engine running. The system has been properly bled. I used the correct Delco fluid. I balanced the valve properly and the ram to valve hoses are in the correct orientation. The lower ram hose goes to the top of the control valve, the upper ram goes the lower control port (Criss Crossed). Now I haven't tried this with the car on the ground yet, could this be the problem along with some trapped air? I just thought I'd get this out there to gain some exposure before I go back at it Monday.
I combed the archives and nothing mentions a fix only the presence of the problem. One thread determined the hoses were reversed, this is not the case here and the valve is balanced. It's a new valve from Central, not a remn.
Is this normal? I can grab the wheel and bring it off the lock, now. Before I balanced the valve I could not bring it off the lock and had to shut it off to do so. The road test is next this coming week. I need to inspect the clutch first while it's still on the lift.

Dave------

Plain and simple------the valve is not correctly balanced. Sometimes, it can be very difficult to get them balanced on the car. The best way is with a hydraulic test bench but few folks have one available to them.

**David M.** · June 19, 2017, 01:37 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Solid question Mike?
Thanks, Joe, Mike. I have had a wrench in my hands professionally on and off for 35+ years. Not saying I'm an expert nor is this is whats needed to fix this problem but I have employed those years of experience towards a common sense approach solution. I do understand the value of precise bench testing. But one would assume that level of accuracy should be able to be hit with some fine intricate field adjusting?

The balancing procedure is:
Procedure 1:
1. Start engine if the ram rod doesn't move and you can push pull on it with ease your balanced.
But if your anal and must touch it, adjust the nut CW until the rod moves out. Then go CCW until it moves in. Now split the difference and you're balanced...or you should be.

Procedure 2 which of course was my case:
1. Start engine. If the rod moves out as mine did turn the nut CCW until it starts to retract. Then CW until it retracts then split that difference. I did this several times and it still jerked to the left.

So after reverifying the hoses are in fact in the proper ports I started playing around with the valve. The nut is extremely sensitive. What I did was I began moving it in minute increments to the extremes (where the system moved left or right on its own) in both directions to attempt to achieve balance. I recorded initial positions than all increments in both directions. The net result was it always jerked to the left no matter how much it was biased in either direction.

Current condition is... it still jerks but not violently and I can move it off that "jerked" position or off the left lock whereas I had to turn off the engine to release it before. I'm one of those that can be persistent to solve a problem but I don't want to throw parts at it.

I think it's safe to assume I have a "bad" valve out of the box? I'm on my way to the garage now to monkey with it a bit more before giving CC a call to return the valve.

TX!

**Michael W.** · June 19, 2017, 01:51 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

I'm not quite clear. Can the nut be adjusted so that the ram sits in a neutral, middle position without moving? Sounds like you're saying that 'no', the ram always retracts and just the speed/force at which it moves varies.

**David M.** · September 2, 2017, 01:02 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Originally posted by Michael Ward (29001)

I'm not quite clear. Can the nut be adjusted so that the ram sits in a neutral, middle position without moving?

Michael,
Yes and I have done this on all three valves(yes #3 just got installed as #2 leaked). That's the balance procedure. You install the valve remove the Ram from the frame bracket turn on engine, observe the ram. If it moves either in or out you are supposed to adjust the nut behind the dust cap in minute increments until the ram does not move in either direction and you should be able to push and pull on the ram rod easily(engine on). The precise procedure is in the you-tube link below. From what Im learning the balance only becomes a problem when your car wants to steer itself right or left on the road or the wheels move with it on the lift.
The problem we are having is when the steering wheel is cranked to the full CCW (left turn) position the system hydraulically locks the steering wheel in that CCW position. Sometimes to the point you need to shut it off to release hydraulic pressure.
Something else is going on here. Too much pump PSI? Wrong geometry on the linkage (was just aligned by a 40 year vette alignment veteran)? Everything on the front end is new with exception of the box and the linkages(linkages are like new box is 1968 OEM).

My theory now is that something is wrong with the lock to lock stops in the steering gear. There is a tire rub witness" mark on the frame where the drivers side tire contacts the frame in a full left turn (CCW) position. With the lock position bad or worn in the box it may be allowing (or uncovering) a port in the control valve thus applying hydraulic pressure into a circuit where it shouldnt be(dead heading). Theory only and plausible. Thats why Im writing this. Someone has to have had this problem? Or I could be first and and I will get to the bottom of it. Im really looking at the box now as I think it could be the root cause??? Comments welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVdw7x9oEQA&t=418s

**Gary R.** · September 2, 2017, 06:55 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

David,
I believe your issue is with the control valve. The quality of these today is, as you know, terrible. Are you using rebuilt or new valves? The new valves were good at one point but I haven't used one in a few years now. The rebuilts have been poor for the past 10 years.

The steering boxes are the same for both PS and manual and there are no internal stops in them. The ball screw simply moves the worm nut from one end to the other. Now if the box is worn, where there is corrosion damage the sector teeth could bind. This is relatively rare but I have seen it, what is more of a concern is if this box has ever been worked on before. I would rather have a worn out untouched original box then some of the "rebuilt" boxes on the market today. I say this simply because I have had to repair boxes that guys bought as rebuilt. The reason the after market boxes like the Jeep box or rack systems have become so popular the past 10 years is because of what has and is still being sold as rebuilt Saginaw boxes. Things like welding and grind worn teeth & flipping the worm nut upside down are some of the things I see when getting in a bad rebuilt box. Many of the sellers do not rebuild them, they just rebox them and mark up the price so they are clueless on how to correct this. I don't know if this is your problem but I figured I would pass it along.

**Joe L.** · September 2, 2017, 08:11 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Originally posted by Gary Ramadei (14833)

David,
I believe your issue is with the control valve. The quality of these today is, as you know, terrible. Are you using rebuilt or new valves? The new valves were good at one point but I haven't used one in a few years now. The rebuilts have been poor for the past 10 years.

The steering boxes are the same for both PS and manual and there are no internal stops in them. The ball screw simply moves the worm nut from one end to the other. Now if the box is worn, where there is corrosion damage the sector teeth could bind. This is relatively rare but I have seen it, what is more of a concern is if this box has ever been worked on before. I would rather have a worn out untouched original box then some of the "rebuilt" boxes on the market today. I say this simply because I have had to repair boxes that guys bought as rebuilt. The reason the after market boxes like the Jeep box or rack systems have become so popular the past 10 years is because of what has and is still being sold as rebuilt Saginaw boxes. Things like welding and grind worn teeth & flipping the worm nut upside down are some of the things I see when getting in a bad rebuilt box. Many of the sellers do not rebuild them, they just rebox them and mark up the price so they are clueless on how to correct this. I don't know if this is your problem but I figured I would pass it along.

Gary and David------

I agree. I HIGHLY doubt the problem is with the steering gear. The control valve is the likely source.

**David M.** · September 3, 2017, 06:34 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

3 bad valves in a row! GAH...hard to believe 3 in a row do the exact same thing, but plausible. I think this warrants a call to the supplier to get a hold of the company who manufacturers these new valves. Ive observed the youtube showing how to rebuild these things. It isnt rocket science. More fun to follow after I exhaust that avenue.

**Gary S.** · September 4, 2017, 07:52 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Uhm, maybe Gary R. Could offer advice on a supplier?

**Gary R.** · September 4, 2017, 09:03 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Hi Gary
I have learned to be careful with recommendations on parts or services I don't get involved with. For instance if this was a direct question on a box, diff or arms, the things I build I would be able to offer a more positive answer but I don't build the valves nor use a lot of them. I will say that many rebuilt parts sold today come from a relatively small group of rebuilders, a good portion of the valves are distributed by the same places that also sell rebuilt boxes, those same ones I found with flipped worm nuts because they were too cheap to buy new gears for a box that needs it.

I have guys come to me with similar stories such as this one, one that come to mind is a guy with a 66 that spent 6 months sending back and forth steering boxes. Every box he got was bad. I met him a Carlisle one year and he told me his story. The rebuilder of all his boxes has a huge area at Carlisle every year. This guy had the 5th or 6th swapped box in his hand and wanted me to fix it. Once he told me his story I directed him to the large vendor's tent to get a replacement and hopefully solve his problem. He came back with it an hour later with the exchange box still sealed in the cardboard box . He asked me to please take back to CT and rebuild it correctly. Since he didn't even open the cardboard box to see it I asked him if I could look it over. He opened it up laid it alongside one of my boxes on the table and they looked the same. Then he said to turn the input on this new box. I put a rag joint on the input and turned it lock to lock- a box of gravel would have been smoother then that box. I told him to take it back for another, but after this being the 6th or 7th exchange, with him paying for all the shipping costs, he again asked me to fix it. I took it back home and found the worm flipped upside down. This is by no means a mistake in assembly, anyone would know it was bad once they tried to dial it in. I gave them the benefit of doubt and installed the worm correctly only to find out it was bottomed out and junk. I have skids of new gears here and was able to fix the box better then new in 1965.

Will I touch a valve recommendation- no way.

**Gary S.** · September 5, 2017, 09:35 AM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Gary R.,
That is understandable but it was more tongue in cheek than anything. From my reading here, however, I would venture a guess that your reputation is pretty well established.

Gary

**David M.** · September 5, 2017, 12:39 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

Good story. Im come from a Mechanical Engineering back ground, abnormally detailed and anal and served in the military. I do things right all of the time, or at least what I believe to be right. I lose sleep otherwise. Too bad some others are less than that. Especially rebuilding chassis parts which come with a level of safety standards...one would think? What if you were in a locked left turn trying to get out of a harry situation. Thats what Ill pose to said manufacturer. I dont have time today but I will call and ferret out the manufacturer and ask some detailed hydraulic, assembly and functional questions. Ill get to the bottom of this...Im a trouble shooter...CSI for machines, not a parts changer. This info will help others and thats why we're here. More to follow.

**Harry S.** · September 5, 2017, 01:01 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

In the spring of 2016 I needed to replace my P/S control valve on my 63 as it was leaking all over the garage floor. Thinking I am an intelligent guy I figured NOS was better than rebuilt. I found an NOS valve and installed it. There was too much assist. The car was dangerous to drive. Just touching the steering wheel at 65 MPH would send you towards the woods. I called Lone Star Caliper in TX. I came to learn that the P/S Control Valve was also used in speed boats. The internal springs were heavier as water provides more drag. I gave them my original to rebuild at the Florida Regional this year, got it back and installed it. Car drives like new. Try them, they were good to me.

**Gary R.** · September 5, 2017, 02:37 PM

Re: Power Steering Cont Valve, wheel jerks to the left???

David
Sounds like you're pretty capable guy so I don't doubt you will be able to handle this issue and help others as well. If you plan on going into the box to check it or just to be sure it is where it should be and need some advice feel free to contact me. I would be happy to go over some checks you can do at home if you have access to a 0-30 in/lb dial TW. Since you haven't touched the box yet it most likely will need some attention anyway.