Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

[William F.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

You don't improve on a classic (if the Corvette you own is one of the classics). Owners of Mercedes 300SL's, early Ferraris, early XKE's, real deal Cobras don't "improve" on them. Yes early Corvettes were some of the fastest cars of the day and they still have reasonable performance but won't stay with many modern cars. That's not why those who want an original or mostly orginal C1, C2, and early C3's buy them and want to keep them as original as possible. If an early Corvette was actually a well prepared race car with history in it's day or currently running on dry lakes, well, I guess that's a different story.

[Michael J.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

One of the things I like about Corvettes, unlike some others you mention, is that pristine, very original cars exist in abundance. I searched for many years for an original '60s era Cobra and an original '65 Shelby GT350 that had not been heavily messed with. They do not exist, most all have been modified, altered, major parts replaced with aftermarket, etc. But I do understand why people want to modify any car to make it more personalized, comfortable, and friendly to drive. There should be room for all of this.

[William F.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

No law against doing whatever you want to your Corvette. Just depends what NCRS is willing to lend its name and approval to. Just hope it's not to the cars that are analogous to the "leisure suits" of the 70's.

[Don B.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

I purchased a 72 coupe last fall. It has 49K original miles along with original Engine, tranny, alternator, mufflers, A/C, emissions, equipment etc. The Brake master cylinder is aftermarket but the booster is original, stereo has been changed. I just spent several thousands of dollars pulling the engine to replace leaking main seal, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gasket, distributor wires, and almost every rubber hose under the hood, all with expensive "reproduction" parts. I am looking for an original stereo and still have a lot of work to do. I have the money to do this, but I am starting to wonder if maybe my commitment to "original" may be misplaced. I would hate to spend a lot of money on this stuff and basically have a car that cannot be judged for some obscure reason, when I could do the same things to make the car a nice driver and maybe better looking for less money. I have the NCRS judging manuals and other literature, but I am starting to wonder about the value of all of this. For example, I was looking at the prejudging sheet and it appears that everything on the car down to the clock must function before judging, so I am thinking, what if I spend another 10 grand to finish the project, then trailer the car across the country only to find out the clock cratered since it was fixed... Or then it gets judged and I lose points for "over restoration" of engine because I painted it chevy orange. These are some discouraging factors that are on my mind and I am sure on the mind of others thinking of going for top flight judging.

I need to decide before I spend a lot of more of my money which might be for nothing. I would think that the uncertainty of flight judging is rather discouraging to a lot of us.

[Leif A.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Don,
Let me start by saying I owned a WarBonnet Yellow '72, base engine, automatic, A/C car in the mid-nineties...really enjoyed that car. It was a 37k mile car with all the original equipment, as well. With that said, IMHO, that particular car is never going to be at the top of the food chain as a investment grade Corvette. You have to come to peace with the fact that you're spending money on your car because you want it to be the best it can be...for you and only you. Chances are the ROI is not going to be there. Continue doing what you're doing because you love your car. As far as Flight Judging, I can only speak from personal experience...go for it. But, do it with the correct perspective. It's going to be a learning experience and can be extremely rewarding if you allow it to be such. Can it be daunting?? Absolutely!! This is a great way, for those of us fortunate enough, to waste some of our hard earned money doing something we love. At the end of the day, Don, the only thing that's important is that you enjoy your car...hopefully, that's why you bought it in the first place

[Don B.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Leif,

I think my point was misunderstood. I was trying to make a point about why this organization is so maligned in the general Corvette Community. BTW, I am new to NCRS, but I have been a Corvette owner for about 15 years, and I have been very active in the Corvette community in general. I plan on making my car look and drive like new, and I am well on my way to do that. That said, if I would have bought regular after market parts instead of the Delco reproduction parts, it would have been much less expensive. My point is to a newbie like myself the requirements seem to be pretty vague. Also, my car is a small block automatic and I realize that it will never be a super valuable car, but I have no idea what that has to do with flight judging. I am not trying to be difficult. I am a new member, but to a person like me all of this stuff is awfully confusing. It seems like what some NCRS people say actually contradicts what is printed in the judging guides. (some of them act like gurus) The new categories may attract new members but if it is as confusing as the current judging standards, I do not think it will not increase membership significantly. But maybe if I can ever attend any activities, I will think differently.

[Don H.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Don
your last sentence is the key. Join your local chapter and attend a meet. See how flight judging is done and maybe even be an observer judge. You will quickly find the answers to your questions. Many less than perfect cars are entered in flight judging and have things not work. Don't be intimidated by what you read and hear. Get involved and enjoy the experience.

[Don B.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

I have joined the Texas chapter, but I think because of the National Convention there is not much going on this spring. I was mainly trying to express the view that I have encountered in the general Corvette community about the NCRS and the fact that there seems to be some validity to it. I am not trying be harsh, just sharing my initial opinions.

One sidebar question regarding the, the "PV Scoresheet." After reviewing this document, I was under the impressions that one line item (for example cigarette lighter not working) could fail the car and prevent the car from being judged. Is this an incorrect assumption?

Don
your last sentence is the key. Join your local chapter and attend a meet. See how flight judging is done and maybe even be an observer judge. You will quickly find the answers to your questions. Many less than perfect cars are entered in flight judging and have things not work. Don't be intimidated by what you read and hear. Get involved and enjoy the experience.

[Michael J.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

I have joined the Texas chapter, but I think because of the National Convention there is not much going on this spring. I was mainly trying to express the view that I have encountered in the general Corvette community about the NCRS and the fact that there seems to be some validity to it. I am not trying be harsh, just sharing my initial opinions.

One sidebar question regarding the, the "PV Scoresheet." After reviewing this document, I was under the impressions that one line item (for example cigarette lighter not working) could fail the car and prevent the car from being judged. Is this an incorrect assumption?

Welcome to the Texas chapter, good to have you. There is one judging meet coming up in Houston this spring April 15, but that may not be close to you. PV is Performance Verification and is a totally different event than Flight Judging and is separate from Flight Judging. PV requires all items to function as the car left the factory (including a rigorous test drive with the judge), it is a very rigorous judging (took me three times to pass it), whereas flight judging has an operations section judging where a small set of those kind of items are judged for functioning, along with 4 other sections, chassis, mechanical, interior and exterior. You lose points for ones that don't work, but with 4500 points available, it will not necessarily keep you from a higher flight award. If you could make the Houston meet, it would be a very informative experience, but I know Texas is a big state. Good luck and hope to see you at an event.

[William F.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

You might want to sell the '72 and buy a mid year if you're going to spend money to get to NCRS specs rather than put a lot 0f $ in the "72 that you'll never get return on . Up to you, of course, but that's the financial reality.

[Bob D.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Don

There is a chapter meet in Houston in March. We will also have a regional in Frisco in October. Of course in between is the national. You can always come to one of the events and be an Observer Judge as mentioned. It is a good learning experience and fun!

Bob

[Michael J.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Don

There is a chapter meet in Houston in March. We will also have a regional in Frisco in October. Of course in between is the national. You can always come to one of the events and be an Observer Judge as mentioned. It is a good learning experience and fun!

Bob

Bob, hate to correct my fearless leader, but the event schedule says the Houston judging event is April 15, 2017, as I mentioned to Don in my comment above.

[Bob D.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

Mike

Thanks as the leader I am running to catch up to the troops. My bad! April it is for the chapter meet.

Bob

[Loren S.]

Re: Ncrs members need to look at this and read the feed back about your new venue

You make a very good point Edward. Logic dictates that at some time probably in the not too distant future it will be near impossible to take a good quality C1 or C2 drive and upgrade it to Top Flight status. The problem is, parts are becoming scarcer and in some cases non existent, or if they exist they do not function, T3 headlights and original Delco shock absorbers are two examples. So let's fast forward the calendar 10 years, it is 2027, what do you think the availability of parts necessary to achieve Top Flight will be, and if they are available, what will they cost? We are going to get to the point where Top Flight is going to be very cost prohibitive for the average enthusiasts and only the very very rich will be able to participate at that level. And..... they will dare not drive their cars because even fair wear and tear will be impossible to correct. This is counter to the initial concept of the NCRS - to drive classic Corvettes - preservation will result in garage queens that are seldom used. I don't know what the solution is, but if nothing changes I am afraid the organization as we know it, and its philosophy will fade into the sunset. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate and respect the NCRS and the Flight award program - I just don't see it surviving in its current form for much longer - then again - I probably won't be around to see what replaces it either.

Hopefully in 10 years we will be able to make our own one-off perfect repos with a 3D printer!