Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
My 1963 convertible came as the base model with 250 hp and no A/C, no power brakes, no power steering, etc. I don't know what happened to the original motor and when I bought the car it had a chevy 283 (2 barrel carb) that was burning oil. I want to install a tame, small block crate engine and would appreciate some guidance on engine fit and what modifications, if any, will be needed. I am looking at three chevy crate engines: (i) 350/290 Deluxe (Part No. 19244450); (ii) 350 HO Deluxe (Part No. 19210008); and (iii) 350 HO Turn-Key (Part No. 1921009). Will these fit the engine bay with my existing hood, 1963 radiator shroud and new dewitt radiator or will I need to make some modifications? Do I really need the serpentine system on the 350 HO Turn-Key? Will any of the parts from the 283 transfer over to the crate engine or am I better off just buying new parts (the peripherals on the 283 like exhaust manifolds are a bit ratty)? Thanks!
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Robert
I will take a crack at this. All those engines will fit the problem might lie in motor mounts and things that bolt to front of the engine, but since you have no power steering etc you should be good. I would stay away from the serpentine setup, parts for original belt system are readily available, I would buy new exhaust manifolds. As for the hood clearance you might have to go with a low profile intake manifold, if you don't want the expense of an original aluminum one, an original cast iron one is easy to find. If you would like to discuss this further send me a private message and I will get back to you asap.
Terry -
Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
I'm not sure about the 350/290, but I believe the other two engines come with Vortec style heads. The Vortec heads are a little taller than stock, and may result in reduced hood clearance. I think the exhaust ports are also positioned a little higher.
I know people make them work though, so hopefully someone with actual experience installing one of these engines will chime in.Comment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Do not know what if any hood clearance problem you would have on a 1963 Corvette, however I installed a ZZ1 GM crate engine in my 1970 many years ago now. I used the 1970 original engines exhaust manifolds that work fine bolted to the aluminum heads. The ZZ1 came with a high rise aluminum intake and I used a new Holley 4-barrel double pumper one it. I installed the same type of air cleaner that came on the 1970 LT1 which is an open element air cleaner and have no hood clearance problems. I did not use the new water pump that came on the new ZZ1 crate engine because of the longer legs. Used the same pump that was on the original 1970 engine so all the pulleys would line up. I have factory air conditioning and power steering. Used the original type fuel pump bolted to the engine.Comment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Robert------
Of the engines you mentioned, I would go with the GM #19244450 (or the GM #12499529 which is minus the manifold and chrome dress-up). I would not use the GM #1921009 with serpentine belt system.
The 19244450 should be pretty much a bolt-in installation. It will fit perfectly in your engine compartment and will work with your existing radiator shroud and DeWitts radiator. Motor mounts will be the same as original.
The main problem will be the PCV system.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Appreciate all the responses and guidance. Is there a thread that explains how to get past the PCV problem that Joe mentioned (I took a quick look but didn't find one). Also, if I go with GM #12499529 (the basic 350/290 hp), any recommendations as which parts I should use for carb, intake and exhaust manifolds, distributor, flywheel, pulley/fan setup, etc.? I am pretty much starting from scratch since I don't think I can use much, if any, of the parts from the ratty chevy 283 that was in the car.
Thanks,
RobComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Rob-------
Based upon what I believe is your desire for a functional installation but not necessarily a configurationally correct installation, I offer the following:
For PCV you will pretty much have to use a 68+ style system. That means using 68+ style valve covers (either stamped steel or aluminum), a 1968+ carburetor (or, certain earlier carbs), and a 1968+ open element air cleaner. It's possible to modify the block and retrofit a pre-68 style PCV system but I would not recommend that to you.
For a carburetor I would suggest using a Q-Jet. You cannot purchase a new Q-Jet anymore (except NOS). I'd suggest using one of the 68-69 Q-Jets.
For intake manifold, I'd use an Edelbrock Performer 2101. Contrary to what Edelbrock says, this manifold WILL fit under a Corvette hood. As a matter of fact, it will fit under a 1968-72 small block hood which is more restrictive than a 1963-67 small block hood. This manifold can mount either a Q-Jet or Holley carb.
For an air cleaner, I'd use a reproduction of the 68-69 open element Corvette air cleaner. This is a drop-down type air cleaner with provisions for PCV. It's very similar to the 1966-67 Corvette air cleaners.
For exhaust manifold, use stock-type ram's horn manifolds. These are available in reproduction or, even, relatively inexpensive aftermarket (usually Chinese castings).
For distributor, use a stock Corvette tach drive distributor (assuming that you want the original tachometer to work).
For flywheel, if you have an original bellhousing (GM #3840383 or GM #3858403), then you'll want to use a 12-3/4" flywheel. You may already have a serviceable example). Otherwise, use LUK LFW 131. The GM flywheel is long-since discontinued.
For a waterpump, use a stock-type 1955-70 short leg waterpump, a quality rebuild or new aftermarket.
For fan, use GM #3770529, the original fan used for your application and still available from GM (you might already have this fan blade assembly). Use a new fan clutch. A reproduction of the GM #3916141 would be good.
For a pulley set-up use a stock 1963 pulley set. You may already have it.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Joe,
Thank you very much for your detailed response with part numbers and specific guidance. It is extremely helpful and I plan to follow your suggestions.
You are correct that I am looking for a functional, practical installation and I do want the original tachometer to work. I do have bellhousing GM #3858403 that came with the car but the flywheel is rather chewed up. I could not find a part # on the fan blade assembly which has 4 blades each of which is approx. 9 inches long. I do have pulley #3864480 CV but it has a bend in it (and may not be correct for 350?). Do you have any particular suggestions on where best to obtain the pieces I need (Summit, Corvette America, etc.)?
Thanks again,
RobComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Robert,I went through this change last year.my choice was the #19210008 version,and am very happy with it.All components were transferable with the exception of the air cleaner," clearance",I was able to pick up a lower one that looks like it belongs there.A real bonus is the H E I dist,and I was able to convert my orig.tach to read the electronic signal,and preserve all orig .dash inst.Joe Lucia offers some good advice also,he helped guide me also,.you may contact me if you like,
FrancisComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Hoping for some additional guidance on some follow-up questions:
1. Exhaust manifolds- With the GM crate engine #12499529 (basic 350/290 hp), can I use exhaust manifolds with 2" collectors since my exhaust pipes are 2"? Do the replacement "ram horn" manifolds have to be specific for this crate motor size or for my 1963? Are there a number of years manifolds (e.g., 1963 - 1972?) that will work for my application?
2. Instructions for GM # 12499529 says to use a harmonic damper of 6-3/4" (Part #12551537) or 8" (Part # 19301706). How do you determine which damper is appropriate?
3. Will any tach drive distributor from a small block work with this crate motor or are there limiting specifications? Will the distributor from the Chevy 283 that was in the car work? Distributors from only certain years will work?
4. Joe mentioned using a 1968-69 Q-Jet carb -- what is the difference between a "divorced choke" versus a "hot air choke"? Summit, for instance, lists a number of different remanufactured 750 cfm Q-Jet carbs.
5. Is the appropriate water pump pulley Part #3790356? Having trouble locating this piece aftermarket? Is there an alternative or replacement part that can be used?
6. Any special considerations on which clutch/pressure plate to use with this crate engine mated to my Muncie 4 speed (which appears to be 1969 vintage)?
Appreciate all the help and apologize for my ignorance on some of these issues.
Thanks,
RobLast edited by Rob M.; February 6, 2017, 07:50 PM.Comment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Rob------
1) Yes, you can use exhaust manifolds with 2" outlets. In fact, all 1966+ small blocks used manifolds with 2" outlets; There are quite a few 63-76 manifolds that would work for your application save for one thing: alternator mounting. So, I'd suggest using the 1963 manifolds or reproductions thereof. GM casting #3749965, left, and 3750556, right.
2) For your application I think I'd just use the 6-3/4" balancer which is what the original 250 HP 1963 engine used. However, if you wish you could use the 8";
3) Any Corvette tach drive distributor will work with this engine. Also, this engine uses a flat tappet hydraulic cam so you don't even need to install a melonized distributor drive gear on the distributor (as you would have to if the engine had a roller cam);
4) A divorced choke is the type which uses a manifold mounted, coil-type thermostat connected to the carb choke by a rod. All 1966-72 Corvettes used this type choke. A hot air choke is one that mounts the coil actuating mechanism on the carburetor with a tube that connects to an exhaust manifold. 1968-69 Q-Jets use a divorced choke. That's also the type choke that the Edelbrock manifold I mentioned is designed for;
5) Pulley GM #3900434 replaced GM #3790356 40 years ago. The 3900434 will work perfectly for you.
6) With the bellhousing you have, you must use a 12-3/4 flywheel in conjunction with a 10.4" clutch. Both are available from LUK.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
"For your application I think I'd just use the 6-3/4" balancer which is what the original 250 HP 1963 engine used. However, if you wish you could use the 8."
Don't forget the diameter of the balancer has to match the tab for the timing chain cover. There are a lot of variations. If the diameter is incorrect the tab is to far away to read correctly or interferes and it will not go on. Where the mark on the outside of the balancer lines up with the tab also varies. To clear this statement up some of the harmonic balancers had the timing line in line with the key-way on the crank. Others are offset, I don't remember the number of degrees but it is visible if you know what you are looking for. An old balancer from the 60's will likely not line up correctly with a new crate motor. Just be sure to get this matched up and you will not have any issues. If the GM crate motor doesn't come with a balancer GM will make a recommendation on the part number to use.
RickComment
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Re: Crate Engine for C2 - Fit and Modifications
Rick-------
The 12499529 crate engine is not supplied with a timing pointer. A bolt-on timing pointer must be installed. A pointer for 6-3/4" balancers is available from GM. The 8" pointer is GM-discontinued but may be available in the aftermarket.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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