original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

[Terry M.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Rob,

An Don Anderson so correctly stated, photos of the notches and lots of discussion about them are already easily found on the internet. In my opinion, your request for images does not make it any easier for people to create them.

But I do disagree with Don statement that it's virtually impossible to re-create the notches accurately. Where there's a will, there's a way. And as others have said, with the chassis on the car it is very difficult to get a very clear view of the notches. Having judged a few side pipe cars, I know this from experience. If I were a betting man, I would wager that someone with the right skills and intent (and there are such people in this business) could create notches that would pass all levels of judging. And I bet that has already happened more than once.

Gary

Gary
I corrected your statement in order to get to the root of the problem.

[Gary B.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Gary
I corrected your statement in order to get to the root of the problem.

Terry,

Point well taken.

Gary

[Gene M.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Terry, you nailed it. This is a hobby for some (hopefully most) of us. But realistically the business portion has taken over a big chunk. Business or the greed portion has upset a lot of the free exchange of information because it could be used for non authentic restorations. Maybe a better word would be creations in place of restorations. The creations are not in our interest while restoration is what it is supposed to be all about.

[Don H.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

If the photos of the notches are so widely available all over the internet, why do there continue to be requests for photos of the notches here on our forum and others? In my opinion the fewer photos there are of them, the better off the hobby is.
Owners of cars that have them don't need the photos, and owners of cars that don't don't either. The people that judge the cars already know, and others that don't yet know can OJ and learn...

[Paul S.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I think it would be pretty hard to duplictae those notches. Not saying it couldnt be done . . Never really saw why they are on there anyway .

[Dan A.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

If the photos of the notches are so widely available all over the internet, why do there continue to be requests for photos of the notches here on our forum and others? In my opinion the fewer photos there are of them, the better off the hobby is.Owners of cars that have them don't need the photos, and owners of cars that don't don't either. The people that judge the cars already know, and others that don't yet know can OJ and learn...

Yeah, what he said.

[Harry S.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I think it would be pretty hard to duplictae those notches. Not saying it couldnt be done . . Never really saw why they are on there anyway .

The side exhaust covers are very heavy. Without the bracket and the screws to hold the covers there would be a problem. The only way to get the screws in the brackets is to have the notches.

[John H.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Never really saw why they are on there anyway .

Paul -

The notches were fixture die-pierced in the birdcage sill flange on a sidepipe car in a subassembly operation before placing the sill in the main cage welding fixture; for an under-car exhaust car, that subassembly operation welded all the rocker molding brackets to the bottom of the sill. The notches were designed in the sill flange to provide installation clearance for the nut on the inboard side of each of the U-nuts used on the fiberglass sill panel for the sidepipe outer cover attaching screws. Photo below shows the condition - on many cars, there was nowhere near that much clearance.


N14Notches6.jpg

[Don H.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

oh good,
more photos.

[Wayne W.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

No matter how good the cutouts might be faked, we can still tell. There are other things that give it away. You might get by with it with some judges, but don't count on it.

[Wayne M.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

oh good,
more photos.

Well, then you'd probably want to see the J-nuts, also.

3880494.jpg10-24 N14 J-nut.jpg

[Bryan H.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Gentlemen. I was enlightened and encouraged by the open Discussion. I unfortunately have an AO Smith with side pipes. So I can safely assume they were installed later. Although my car isn't completely correct. I still enjoy the sound. As 1 of you stated a dishonest person will proceed to the best of his ability anyway. arming others will ensure they do not get fooled.
Bryan Hepper 1965 Coupe and 1956 Roadster.

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I know this is an old thread but can anyone give an idea of how many points will be lost on an AO smith with side exhaust? Assuming everything else is correct at judging aside from the N14 option being added, can top flight still be awarded?

thank you in advance,
Julio

[Gary B.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julie,

The total deduct for added side exhaust was discussed on the DB about 2 years ago. There isn't a standard deduction for added side pipes, and people's opinions about the total deducts had a surprising range. The average was about 100 pts, plus or minus 10 pts. Search for that thread for details and differing opinions about deducts and justifications. In any case, it is definitely possible to Top Flight with added side exhaust.

Gary

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julie,

The total deduct for added side exhaust was discussed on the DB about 2 years ago. There isn't a standard deduction for added side pipes, and people's opinions about the total deducts had a surprising range. The average was about 100 pts, plus or minus 10 pts. Search for that thread for details and differing opinions about deducts and justifications. In any case, it is definitely possible to Top Flight with added side exhaust.

Gary

Hi Gary,
thank you for the reply, I've been reading for hours on this topic and like you said there is varying opinions. I have an AOS body so I could never pass it off. I think for purposes of judging I will restore the car with its original exhaust system in an effort to try and achieve top flight.
regards,
Julio