327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

[Harry S.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

IMHO: Special thanks to GM/Chevrolet for not keeping the documentation(Or they got them and won't release them) on their cars like Mopar&Ford did. All these problems could have been avoided. A stupid decision that will stay with them forever. Larry

We started the hobby not GM. They were just making cars for a profit. I know a retired GM exec that spent months on assignment to look for old records. He went to every GM paper archive warehouse that existed, there were no records to be found. Nothing is hidden and nothing is held back. I believe NCRS has everything available.

[Paul B.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

If this sort of thing keeps up, the only "real" cars out there that you can be sure of will be small blocks.

...and Dark Green cars without bolt-ons & side exhaust. Can you imagine what a different hobby it would have been if engines would have been designated in the VIN like the '72 & up cars?

[Steve B.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

IMHO: Special thanks to GM/Chevrolet for not keeping the documentation(Or they got them and won't release them) on their cars like Mopar&Ford did. All these problems could have been avoided. A stupid decision that will stay with them forever. Larry

My 2 cents is that the records exist for these cars. Maybe not in the conventional sense but through other means like, shipping, or zone, parts etc. My guess is that even if I were correct, GMs legal counsel would be advising them not to release them. I am sure that they are fully aware of what has been going on for decades not only with Corvettes but all Chevrolet products and if it was discovered that this could have all been avoided, there would be a line a mile long with people suing them.

[John D.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

That's the one that spent three days under a wet wash cloth that had been salted.......

...and then had a light film of gun blue applied while the tank sticker with the coffee stains was drying in the microwave.

[Jimmy G.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

At least they used the same assembly date. I have more than one in my limited data base with this same situation

[Roy S.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

IMHO: Special thanks to GM/Chevrolet for not keeping the documentation(Or they got them and won't release them) on their cars like Mopar&Ford did. All these problems could have been avoided. A stupid decision that will stay with them forever. Larry

Just because a real piece of paper exists does not mean you have a real car. I believe there are just as many counterfeit cars built around real paper.

[Larry E.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

We started the hobby not GM. They were just making cars for a profit.

Believe Ford/Mopar and every other manufacturer where doing the same.

I know a retired GM exec that spent months on assignment to look for old records. He went to every GM paper archive warehouse that existed, there were no records to be found. Nothing is hidden and nothing is held back.

When that was done it was "Water over the Dam"; the decision not to keep them was made long before the exec. starting looking.

I believe NCRS has everything available.

All they(NCRS) got is human beings guessing what they see; only so few where there(upper management) when the cars/dicisions where made.
NCRS has very little available on the original GM paperwork. Look at the original post. I'll stick with my statement. IMHO Larry

If we don't believe Ford/Mopar had a way better system for records then GM; we are living in denial. Larry

[Ara G.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Just because a real piece of paper exists does not mean you have a real car. I believe there are just as many counterfeit cars built around real paper.

You bet, I saw one last weekend. Decorated car too...shame....

[Michael W.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

and if it was discovered that this could have all been avoided, there would be a line a mile long with people suing them.

Suing them for what?

[Roy S.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

At least they used the same assembly date. I have more than one in my limited data base with this same situation

I believe that fact is even more proof that this is blatant fraud, either the guy stamping the 327 to resemble the real 427 motor to cause grief for the 427 owner, or the guy stamping the 427 to resemble the real 327 to pilfer someone else's pocket.

[Larry E.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Just because a real piece of paper exists does not mean you have a real car. I believe there are just as many counterfeit cars built around real paper.

Roy: It would at least give us a starting point; right now we are way out in left field. Ford/Mopar are at least running the bases.

Roy: Thanks for the response; always respect your thoughts. Larry

[Roy S.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

All they(NCRS) got is human beings guessing what they see; only so few where there(upper management) when the cars/dicisions where made.
NCRS has very little available on the original GM paperwork. Look at the original post. I'll stick with my statement. IMHO Larry

If we don't believe Ford/Mopar had a way better system for records then GM; we are living in denial. Larry

Larry, I'm not saying the paper is not better, sure we would love to have it, fact is we don't. So we can cry over the spilt milk all we want won't change the fact. Also there are multiple cases that have proven the presence of real paper does not mean it is a real car, numerous examples of this exist.

[Roy S.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Roy: It would at least give us a starting point; right now we are way out in left field. Ford/Mopar are at least running the bases.

Roy: Thanks for the response; always respect your thoughts. Larry

Larry: Likewise we all appreciate your thoughts, my friend. If those records ever do materialize I'll be one of the first celebrate.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

I believe that fact is even more proof that this is blatant fraud, either the guy stamping the 327 to resemble the real 427 motor to cause grief for the 427 owner, or the guy stamping the 427 to resemble the real 327 to pilfer someone else's pocket.

I'm betting the latter is what happened. Took a 350HP with paperwork & made a 435 to match the original SB. Not the first time I have heard of this. The screw up is they kept the original SB cylinder case. Also you are right as I know of a 435 that was made up to match the original paperwork including the window sticker. The 67 was stolen in 1968 & never found but the original owner had all the paperwork in his house.

[Loren L.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

At least one of those searches was conducted under a letter directing cooperation signed by Jim Perkins, a certified "car nut", who was then the head of Chevrolet. You don't hide records from those folks. They were destroyed as a matter of routine. It should be noted that at least the Corvette records are now being preserved at the NCM.